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  1. #1
    West's Avatar

    Magical Chinchilla
    Star Scenes

    There's been some issues with metagaming, and I'd like to talk about it.

    For those of you unfamiliar with the term, it's when a player user information their character does not have.

    This can be something as small as knowing where a character lives from information in a Mood post, or avoiding another character because you've read they've been told to find you.

    More importantly, it means hashing out scenarios in Chat. For example, if you ask me (West) in Chat if my character (Asa) will get pissed about your character doing something, that's going to have a direct effect on your decision. Your character has no idea how my character will respond until you do it. So when you 'what if' with another player, and get information which you use to base your character's actions on, it's metagaming.

    There's a lot of stuff that is minor meta, that we overlook -- such as 'bumping into' someone to facilitate acknowledgement, etc. That's our fault if we've given y'all the wrong impression.

    Metagaming is Bad And Wrong. It's the worst crime in RP'ing.

    Long story short, in the nicest way possible: It needs to stop. If it continues, I'll either make Chat IC only, or start warning, then banning people.

    This is to keep it fun for everyone. Anyone that's ever been the victim of metagaming will tell you: it's infuriating. I know for a fact, that there are people here that do not write Mood posts they want to write because they're afraid of being meta'd on.

    Please, please, please do not hesitate to talk to an ST or ask questions if you're uncertain about something.
    Don't hate the player, hate the game.
    The Zeroth Law & the Burden of InteractionThe Devil is in the DotsGreat ExpectationsPlaying MagePlayer Run Plots
    If you have a question about your character, please post it on your character sheet

  2. #2
    DaevaDude's Avatar

    my god y'all act like he's a diablerist :P
    It's much worse than that.

    He diablerizes kittens.

    That's one of the Mood posts someone's afraid to make. West is afraid if he posts the scene of Asa sucking the souls out of a new litter of eyes-not-opened-yet, fluffy little ktitens, animal-loving players will decide Asa must be overthrown.

    So, that's part of why Metagaming is bad, and must stop. Because it keeps us from getting Asa-soul-sucks-the-kittens posts.

    Seriously though... Metagaming really can be a shit thing. I've seen it destroy games. That happened in an online Champions game I was in at one time. And often it comes about innocently enough.

    This is one reason why I try to avoid OOC knowledge of characters as much as possible. STs have access to the character sheets for their venues, of course... but we also have as-needed access to the sheets of the other venues. This is useful for running crossover scenes, and right now I have two non-Vamp characters in Requiem threads, so because John Gears is hanging out in the Gilded Lily, I temporarily have access to the Lost sheets, and I will get Forsaken access if it turns out I might need to know anything about Mateo's stats. So far, though, DS has let me know anything I actually needed to know to ST John, (his Clarity score, for example, which was necessary when he did Kenning), so I haven't even looked at his sheet... and I'm not going to if I don't have to, in case I end up RPing in a scene including both Derek and John some time. Same with Mateo... I could end up with Orphan or Derek in a scene with him some day. I did look at Matthew's sheet when he was in a Req thread, but even then, I confined my glance to looking at a couple of key attributes, skills and traits (mostly perception-based stuff, which was relevant for the scene in question).

    I do this in part because I'd rather be surprised as a player as well as in-character when someone's character pulls out some cool ability, but I also do it to reduce the small chance of me doing some meta-thing by mistake.

    As to the scene in the Asylum... I don't have a problem with two players deciding they'd like their characters to run into each other for the sake of story fun, talking about it a bit in chat and making it happen. I'm a big fan of old-school comics like Marvel Team-Up and The Brave and the Bold, and the convolutions they'd do in those to arrange a team up between Spider-Man and Brother Voodoo or Batman and Aquaman were vastly more unlikely than "three guys that need to be acknowledged by the Seneschal happen to go into the same bar." I just wish BC and BBQ had talked to me about the planned Asylum scene.

    But if, for example, two players decided they wanted their character to screw over someone else's character, so they plotted out-of-character to make that to happen... well, that would make me quite unhappy as ST. Like, hunters-with-flamethrowers-show-up-at-the-offending-players'-characters'- Havens-at-9-am unhappy.

    Well, okay, maybe not quite that bad. But close enough.

    So, I'm with West on this. Metagaming is bad, m'kay?

  3. #3
    Majunior's Avatar

    My only question on this... where exactly do we differentiate between metagaming, and checking with a player before we do something that involves their character?

    Would we prefer to just take the action, hope the player understands, and field any and all fallout from said action, or would we prefer to pose the question on borderline situations and risk metagaming by asking the player?

    I suppose we could ask the ST first, and THEN ask the player depending on the ST's ruling... but really, that's accomplishing the same thing with an extra step. *shrug*

    So... what do our beloved STs suggest?

  4. #4
    Benji's Avatar


    Knot appears, for a moment, as a marionette, roughly carved from wood and painted in a facsimile of life, bound up in a spiderweb tangle of it's own strings, that are pulled every-which way by unseen hands.

    Mask of Tranquility
    Striking Looks (Roguish Good Looks) 2

    "Hey West, I'd like Roxie to meet Asa and talk to him about some things, let's get a scene going" Is Good

    "Hey West, I'd like Roxie to meet Asa and talk to him about some things, she plans on broaching the subject of killing Rahyana and taking over her position, what would Asa say to that?" Is Metagaming
    no offense but do i look like i understand anything?

  5. #5

    As both a Player and an ST here, I want to post a reminder about something. Okay with that posted I would like to add a bit more and give some examples.

    Example 1: Responding to someone’s Inner Monologue either in your own inner monologue or out loud is Metagaming and Bad.
    - Note for the newbs, Most players here have there inner monologue in Italics without Quotes.
    - "Spoke aloud"
    - Inner Monolgue

    Example 2: Responding to someone's Private status in your public or private status is Metagaming and Bad. Caveat. If you are in that person’s inner circle and would be told the private status then by all means respond how you would like. If you’re not sure if you would know that person's Private Status ask the player.

    Example 3: Doing anything based on Player Knowledge rather than Character knowledge is Metagaming and Bad. To give an example of this example, Out of Character I know Rick and Terri consummated their relationship in a tree. In Character Spartan has no idea of it and therefore anything I do based on that knowledge with Spartan is considered Metagaming and Bad.

    If you have any questions, comments, death threats or anything of the like please don't hesitate to ask.

  6. #6
    West's Avatar

    Magical Chinchilla
    Star Scenes

    We know you just bumped it because of your arboreal fetish.


    I'd just like to stress that anyone on the Staff will be happy to help/talk to you if you have a question about whether you're skirting the line. It's so much easier to work things through OOC than have to sort it out after it's done IC.
    Don't hate the player, hate the game.
    The Zeroth Law & the Burden of InteractionThe Devil is in the DotsGreat ExpectationsPlaying MagePlayer Run Plots
    If you have a question about your character, please post it on your character sheet

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