(1604)Two Gangrels and a Mehket

[Kenneth Gilroy]

"If existing is the only thing required for something to be 'part of the world' or 'natural' as it were, then chemicals and organisms produced in a lab are also natural by definition. They exist in the world after all." Maybe it was the beast urging Kenneth to tear apart Silver the argument, or a factor of an indirect attack on his profession and religion, but the worm wasn't going to let the Acolyte's beliefs off easy. The bacteria he engineered at obeyed the rules of physics, chemistry, and biology as understood by modern science. Kenneth still kept his tone civil and professional. "If you say they should be discounted because they were made by human intelligence, then you discount that intelligence is a trait that evolved naturally and thus anything produced by intellect also must be natural. Or if such products are somehow 'unnatural', then both Kindred and Kine are divorced from nature since both have capacity for complex thought." That wasn't even getting into the semantics of what intelligence was, how it was measured, and what animals also possessed it.

"So while I have many questions, I don't think there would be enough time to answer them all tonight. So I'll just ask; what other factor's into the Circle's view of being a 'part of the world' aside from existing?" It was an argument he'd heard before. It was like saying organic somehow made a product better. That simply wasn't the case in all cases.

Maybe he was pushing back too hard and the night had worn on him too much. However, before a meaningful conversation could occur so he would be able to learn more about the Circle; they needed to know what the other meant when they used words and phrases so laden with meaning and potential misunderstanding. Gilroy let David consider, and if needed, the worm would wait till next court for the answer.

[David Silver]

David patiently listens to the full of the Bishop's argument. He does not make to interrupt or interject, and waits for the final question before stopping and composing his response.

The classic arguments against the naturalist fallacy, but without the 'better or worse' that I left out. So the Bishop is educated, and not just a street preacher. Good to know. Good use of Strawman as well. David gives a small smile at the bishop, before retorting.
"Your arguments are sound, but they strike against I point I do not make. Kindred are not, to use your term, unnatural. Allow me to use another example, and answer your question as well. Aside from existence, there is the cycle of life that exists for our kind. We are brought into this world, we grow, our appetites increase, we create more of us, and though we are loath to admit it, we do die. Not by our own internal processes, but that too, is not a trait unique to Kindred. To 'prove' that something is natural is impossible, as there is no definition of 'natural'. We can only draw comparisons, and infer based on what we see. And that is where the difference between science and belief are, as you are well aware I am sure.

But I am getting too far ahead of myself. I agree with you, a better time for a fuller answer would be in the future."
After some copious research. This would not be easy to disassemble the Bishop's words.

[West]

Brittany excuses herself and leaves Court, as her Requiem is currently Eclipsed elsewhere.

[Alice Hart]

Alice's unreal amethysts watched as Brittany made her way out of Court, but her attention soon turned from wondering why the blond left so abruptly to the beginnings of Gilroy' and Silver's verbal spar.

Alice teeters, her faith hung between them. She didn't know which Covenant to turn to. Her loyalty to her Priscus excluded, because she shouldn't base a decision this big on something like that. This was her unlife, and she should do what is best for her. She would seek out the Acolytes within the Domain; now counting three, and ask her questions, listen to their answers. Hoefuly their answers wouldn't be as long winded, and droning as the worm's. A thought kept nagging at the corners of her mind. Which Covenant wanted her, Alice Hart. Wacked out porcelain marionette, and not just a number. Who would fight harder for her?

A wicked thought occurred to her then, on how she could go about seeing just which Covenant would fight harder for her. And how far each were willing to go to cement her faith with them, and not their rival. Then she frowned. Wondering, if the victor of this tug-of-war she was planning would truly would reside where the haunt truly belonged.

Alice shook her head, her ghostly hair following along after her. Dawn was approaching and she still had along way to get her ass home, before then. Maybe she could sleep on the thoughts of tug-of-war, and decide later.

Alice waited for the men to finish their words, her mind repeating them, her thoughts still spiraling. Alice blocked it out, to give those remaining, a smile, not caring that it wasn't one she'd practiced until it look normal, "Alessandra?" Alice wonders if she should have addressed the women as Whip Antinori. "I'd love to still have that shopping date if you're still up for it?" then she turns, to the others, "But the night grows late, I should be on my way." Alice gives Gilroy a deferential, if jerking nod in farewell.

Alice returns to the main thread

[Alessandra]

She smirks at Konrad’s grin and humor.

“I’m with her,” she says with a nod to Brittany, “and at least a couple drinks before measurements are handed out.” She replies playfully. “Or you could just let us know what you want us to wear and we’ll take it from there.”

Her attention then shifts to the convo between Kenneth and David. She wasn’t really sure what was being talked about….Kine…Kindred…natural and unnatural. Yet another reason she liked not being with a group, the whole chest puffing crap. Who’s group was better than the other…..blah blah blah.

Thankfully, Alice pulls her attention away.

Grinning, “Defiantly! I’ll give you and Brittany a call and we’ll get a night setup.” Shopping….yuck. But, it went towards the whole being social and getting to know other Kindred thing.

[Konrad Roth]

"Fair is fair," Konrad says to Ale and Brittany before she departs. As Alice follows after towards the exit, Konrad feels its his cue to call it a night. Even Silver and Gilroy put aside their freshly budding philosophical debate to free themselves for parting with pleasantries.

"Good to meet you again, Silver. Keep it real, Miss Hart. Bishop Gilroy," he nods to the Haunt Priscus as he separates himself from the group.

Konrad returns to the main thread

[Kenneth Gilroy]

The gunshot made Gilroy cringe. What was that? Where had it come from? His mind started moving faster as realization dawned, that it had come from the Reeve's office. Not yet the panicked speed of combat but certainly on alert. Sterling, of that he was certain. He recalled the two newcomers entering. Two, with one down. Which meant there might still be conflict. That started a whole new series of gears turning.

"Excuse me, Mr. Silver," he said as he scuttled away.

Kenneth returns to the main thread.

[Alessandra]

Ale's head snaps around at the sound of the gunshot. Which sounded like it came from the Reeve's office, where her Cousin was.

What the actual hell?!

Before she can react, she hears Konrad. Looking to him, she nods her head and moves to stand beside him.

Ale moves to the Main thread