Good vs Evil

[Chambers]

Now that is surprising. And the young woman takes his interested away from the art and onto herself proper. "You found your definition of evil within yourself?" Now how does that work exactly? "To know yourself as evil, would you not first need to know evil itself, to be bale to recognise that you are or were evil?" Of course these questions went around and around. Pancryptia has done a solid number on these has it not. And yet the question was oh so frustratingly tantalizing. There are things even for us that are true yet can tear at the sense of morality enough to drive mages mad or to dark practices. Surely then what I can do contains both good and evil? Not just in its application but in some universal way?

Now we are getting into some classic sociology. "Keep them happy you say, a reference to Marx perhaps?" True enough if you get a population content enough they tended not to cause as many issues as those who were less pleased by their situation. "We can consider North Korea in the modern day if your looking for a place in which information is restricted and populations are smaller then some other countries." While yes a great deal of the populace was effectively brainwashed. "Even in such brutal and systemic regimes there are those who push to escape to understand there situation is wrong and while unable to change it themselves at least seek to no longer be acting in support of it." Leaving room for her to offer a reprisal here he knew several existed. "From where hen do you think the term evil first arose? Would that offer us some insight into the meaning of the word?" How likely it is that the concept has been skewed and twisted from original purpose to fit a variety of narratives.

That discrimination was an abhorrent and appalling practice it seemed they were in agreement and it needed no further debating. "I would say I can from an educational standpoint or from a long distance away know these things yes but to have lived and experienced to have suffered and seen the true horrors first hand." What you need to really have a chance of knowing it. "No I do not know it." And it would an injustice to claim overwise.

[Galina]

Softly shaking her head in answer.
"Not truly no, we know what is objectively evil, we know what deeds are evil, we know how hurting is evil. We know lines do we not." We were forced them since childhood so of course we do. "Once I started to see that the lines were not clear cut, that it was not just white and dark but a lot of gray, how the motions of the dark could illuminate the white at that moment so could I find myself." Not sure if he understood the full meaning of her word, and not like she could share it with him in full at such an open locale. "When you do not fear to do evil, can recognize that you sometimes plays the villain in a story so can you play the hero in many others." You cannot have it all. "In that I at least found peace and no longer dragged down by good and evil within myself."

"I am not that well read on his exact words, but there is a difference in keeping a majority that is strong enough to suppress the rest happy, and the others in squalor. As long as you have the control to be certain the oppressed are to few to stand a chance to rise so can you shape a community or society depending on era, and dictate the norm for many for generations if things goes bad." Lightly nodding at his words. "Yes in present time I am inclined to agree, and we have seen or well read at least how it goes for those who escape and see the effects of their brainwashing. How they break down from it." Starting to walk a bit to see if he would follow along with her as she keeps talking. "That is a noble start, and what is needed, if ones so oppressed can then why does countries with so much more freedom so often fail?" Opting to not go for a reprisal instead momentarily showing a light grin of a smile. "Yet when we speak of atrocities of today so are we so often stuck in the same ones, why do we hide so many others? When did someone last mention the prison in China where they hold several thousand or tens of thousands more prisoners than could fit" turning her eyes to him "women forcibly married off and abandoned by their family happening dozens of times by the hour, to mention a few. Where is their light? And how did we as a species let it go that far?" Looking stumped for a moment. "Some philosopher I would assume, but that is a mere term, the actions was there long before it, so does the effect of having a term change it in some manner? Give it power, focus it or does it weaken it?" The actions has always been there, but it is an interesting point what does the term actually contribute and offer?

"Interesting words, I did feel aspects of it." Shifting her eyes out over the visitors. "My time in Japan did show me just how hard it can be, how much is concealed underneath pretty facades. Granted though, I was lucky and did not get the worst of the worst, but enough to have stood at the entrance and felt it at the least." I know others were far from as lucky and experienced exponentially worse though. "Is our history one of advancement, or one that proves our species superiority in oppressing our own, using and discarding those that should be our equals?"

[Chambers]

Ah what felt like the age old debate, the arguments that felt good to say so easy to uphold in the calm and quiet moments. "To harm is evil? Would that not mean surgery is evil?" A very pedantic argument he is well aware but a soft challenge something that if taken right would begin the process of refinement through the steps. Talk of white, black, grey heroes and villains. Yes indeed. "A phrase about one man's freedom fighter comes to mind." Do we get decide who the heroes and villains are. "And once more to the victor history." Because she had been closer then she realised. "The only way to know evil is to know it in yourself. External factors will cloud that judgement, offer differing perspectives can so easily muddy the water until evil is no longer known." But for not fearing evil well. Evil had a lot to make it scary.

A slight chuckle of his own. Now here is an interesting hypothetical. "Are you well read in comics by chance, Doctor doom specifically?" There was a curious parallel to be drawn on socialisation if she was. He indeed does follow walking slowly to drop mid conversation would be rude. "We could also speak of the daily male victims of domestic abuse." Matching her point of forced marriage with another shunned and hidden statistic. "Or the treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo. Both during incarceration and after release." He could of course validate that curious documentary about as well as she could her claims but it had been worth the watch. "As species what we do is viewed right or wrong based entirely on where we stand to view it from. Practices you, I or another might find to be abhorrent are socially and culturally acceptable elsewhere. Yet we enforce our paradigm of right and wrong as more important then there's." The inherent flaw in trying to find evil in self understanding, you must first understand the self and it's biases. A shrug. "I cannot say with certainty who first coined the notion." Not as we speak of it anyway. "Words have a lot of power. It is important not to forget that." Perhaps the only concrete take away from the discussion.

One of advancement, no ours is not a history of that. "We are very good at trying to subjugate, rule over and others feel superior to each other." And I have my guesses as to why that is. "A history of wars, slavery and discrimination." History when understood made the present look well not shiny and bright but offered a brief glimmer of gratitude to not be alive in times come before. Well with the one shining exception to that of course.

[Galina]

"Is an act determined based on what is done at each step, the reason behind it, or the method used for it?" Depending on where you drew the line, or how it was watched so was that a grand difference. "And what is harm in truth? Does it need to be physical, if not where is the line when the unphysical is truly harm?" Shooting him a curious look, licking her lips and looking away ever so slightly hesitant. "I fear it is a tale that has not reached my ears, would you be so kind as to share it with me?" Offering him a nod with eyes wandering over the various pieces of the exhibit. "It is easy to judge others, to hear tales and be the juror, but when you do not know the circumstances are you one to judge? If you claim to be kind, and good, does that mean that you just cannot handle to accept the darkness within you?" Why fear evil in such a manner? "Evil has always been, and will always be, what is and isnīt evil will shift though, things that were good will be looked back on one day and told as evil, or at the very least risk it happening."

Raising an eyebrow and moving her face around a bit, clearly trying to formulate her mind.
"Not to well I am afraid, but arenīt he like a dictator and evil but beloved by his people or something like that?" Yes he must be a villain according to him being a villain in movies, and what did that reel say now again? "All of whom are hidden, ashamed, not believed, it is a travesty. We strive for gender equality, yet in the process does not see how social norms have affected and conditioned both genders. Only widening the gap." Slowly walking around to take in the various installments around them, but having absolutely no rush, gladly taking her time by each one. "True, which means that we can never truly grasp evil more than in wide strokes does it not? We can say that certain things are vehemently wrong, but can you speak against a whole culture, or off it if you havenīt lived it, if you do not know the facts or werenīt there?" How can you understand the desperation of the starving thief if you have never starved, how can you judge the parent doing deplorable things for their child when to you it is nothing but words on a paper? "Words carry boundless potential, good and evil always shifting in various degrees, the one thing who do tends to change the least being to needlessly make others suffer. Or is that to words of my narrow field of view?" After some of these talks she truly wasnīt sure.

Looking a tad bit saddened by the words as she looks down into the floor for a moment.
"Then are we as a species truly ones who should preach how good we are?" That was so common to hear. "We arent born truly equal no, but on a wider spectrum so are we all biologically pretty much equal. There may be adaptations within us be they resistances to climate, food, or other, but sociologically, economically, opportunities and more decided by birth creates a gap. Yet we preach of goodness." Looking back to him. "As you subjugation, slavery, and discrimination in one form or another fills our entire history yet we preach of good and evil without even seeing what we are doing each day."

[Chambers]

A small tilt of the head. "It was you who said we know hurting is evil. My statement was only to get to your consider the implications of that. Would anyone call life saving surgery to be evil despite the clear and required physical harm inflicted to perform it?" Probabaly someone somewhere, and it was a lie regardless true healing required no such harm. "I used physical harm because it had the easiest comparative point." And talking of damage to the soul risks getting to close to things. "It is a saying that ones man freedom fighter is another mans terrorist." All that determines which, is sides. "When you spoke of areas of grey in morality it seemed applicable." Attention turning back to the various on display. Mostly pictures and painting and a few sculptures. "Or can you you only even try to be good by knowing that evil?" When absolutes did most certainly exist right alongside constant change it could be rather difficult to grasp. "I do not think so I think changing perceptions allow for evil to be obscured, and hidden." That it can do its work more completely. "A philosopher once said we must accept no evil for what becomes accepted becomes common place and suddenly it becomes evil to do good and evil has become good. Yet this does nothing to detract from evil is still evil and good is still good despite the change in perceptions." Who was that? "Karl Popper." That was it.

He chuckles. "Yes something like that. An Authoritarian narcissistic dictator who genuinely wants to improve life for his country. And does so when he takes power. He is evil, brutal even but creates a utopia free from crime and need." Idealistic of course. "And when he is toppled by the heroes his country and people fall into ruin, violence and starvation." So who is the villain in that story really? This conversation was one several might find uncomfortable but as was the nature of discussing the dark reflections of the species of humanity and all of its gruesome horror and practice. Still The young woman seems to be taking things in her stride. As she wonders he stops to examine a particular piece in more detail but keeps talking. "It begs the question then at what point should we have the right to impose by law or force moral codes and structures on other cultures and groups?" Learning was possible, but if the absoluteness of good and evil was known then did it justify dictatorship? "In Britain for example religious sacrifice of animals is forbidden in private residence it must be carried out by another an abattoir. Robbing many of their right to practice their faith. Good or evil?" Better for the animal, but legally prohibitive for the person on moral grounds. A shrug. "Many ethical theories have no issue with causing suffering, usually for a reason but sometimes if you can then you are justified. Lets take Act Utilitarianism. It is permissible that many suffer if a great number benefit in a proportionate manner to the suffering inflicted." Keeping it fairly simple in terms of ethical fields.

Do we have a right to claim we are good. "No. We should not." A bleak outlook. "To say we are good implies total understanding, That we achieved a state of good from which their is no where else to go." And humanity certainty had not managed that. "Think on this slavery has only been seen as abhorrent for the last at most two hundred years of history and even today by many it is still practiced." Far from removed. "A change that took thousands of years to come about to reach even this moment." Changes did happen, were they for the good or ill in the supernal battle he did not have the wisdom to know. But change did occur it found ways and mechanisms and change was something he understood fundamentally well. "We should never allow ourselves to be static." No pats on the back that's for sure.

[Galina]

Mimicking the motion of the head akin to a mirror.
"A general consensus does indeed say that it is, your example however speaks of harm for good, and often willing. If we discuss good and evil do we not need to see where the line is drawn?" Nodding toward him. "What you can see is always easier than what you cannot." Softly listening in a quiet tone for a moment. "Thank you, that was new to me. But it is an interesting one, and one I can relate to." In fact it aligns with me a tad bit to well, almost as if he knew something, no not possible. "Oh so that was it, then I am following, thank you for clarifying." Does not seem like he know, puhh, glad my tattoos are hidden. "That depends on your angle, I do believe that you can be seen as good, appear good, claim to be, but truly be, no. I do not think you can be fully good without seeing, taking in, and reflecting on evil." Not certain if she should blush, grin or smile so attempting to do them all at once to a very odd little scene. "That does sound right, and is a help of how evil prosper. Yet lenses of the past does make us color things as evil, or good, without grasping the full extent of circumstances as they have been wiped away never to be able to be heard again."
Listening with a raised eyebrow, clearly not recognizing the name. "I do like that, it sounds exceedingly true, and I do believe that we have proof of that scattered over numerous cultures across the globe today, just in different forms at times. We are good at keeping our eyes shut, to accept, and make it common until we are blind."

Listening to his words with great curiosity, being one who mainly reads things of her adopted country this was not truly her domain, some movies and talks around them and reels giving some insight yes but not to deep.
"Interesting, and is he meant to reflect something, or have some meaning in this? I do know that the umm, friend of magnet guys team once used their status as" hesitating for a moment as she thinks on it. "Mutate or mutant?" Damn why do they have both? "Were used as a direct telling of oppression of real life situations in the 80-90s so is this a reflection as well or lacking of such life?" Finding herself a bit out of her water, her views tending to be quite clear, it was just who she was as a person, still she had been told numerous times that she had a lot of growing still to do, something this loneliness did make harder. Trying to give him a genuine warm smile but quickly looking away with a slight red hue on her cheeks. "That is a good question, especially when we come to religious freedom, the northerners of Europe had plenty of ceremonies that included animal sacrifice, some who practice it to this day, likewise so have many others had it. Some follow this to this day, so you pose a question I fear I cannot answer." Was there even an answer? "Where are the lines? What moral philosophy should be considered? How do you even begin to answer such a question? It is easy to speak of separate instances, but when you look at it all, and need to go over more things than a single person can probably fathom how do you find a ground that is both good for the individual, the masses, the society, and the future alike?"

Turning her eyes to a sculpture as she takes his words in.
"Indeed, slavery exists both in itīs truest of forms, but also in invisible threads all around us. We as a species has advanced wide and far, be it technologically, be it in communication, or being able to see the wider pictures." Casting and eye back to him without truly looking away from the sculpture. "Yet we are a young species, our time on this Earth so new it is hardly more than a blip in time, if we are to survive we need to keep progressing without forgetting the lessons of yesteryear." Fully turning herself toward him. "If we become static we become nothing, we are nothing, it is nowhere to go, killing the dreams of a better tomorrow. Which we are far, far, far from achieving. The day we our world is Utopia without a doubt for each and everyone we can even consider stopping." Taking out a little post it note from her purse, scribbling on it, biting her lower lip and taking a step back. "Yet it is important to see that Utopia is a dream, an unachievable dream, one manīs maybe but for us all a true Utopia no that cannot exist, as such we must always strive to make tomorrow better than today, else future generations will pay the price."

Placing her left hand behind her back, clenching it so hard she can almost feel her skin being breached as she stretches out the post it note toward the man.
"I thank you for this conversation, even if it is not within my field of knowledge so have you given me some insight into things which I am grateful for. If you do would like a moment under different circumstances, or maybe attend the ballet, I do love the nutcracker, so shot me a text." Feeling the sensation of blood circling through her, profusely blushing, needing a moment to keep her breath even, why were people so hard to deal with when you had to hide so much? Why was it so much easier back home where she could be open with who she was? "I mean you do not have to, but if you would like to or just want someone who enjoys the arts so do I have a flexible schedule." Taking a step backward. "I do fear that I have to leave for now though, work is calling, if I do not leave soon so will I not get the cameras setup in time." And she had finally started to get a little growth of followers back, and seeing a slow but existing increase again. "It was enjoyable with some company in these scenes again." Far better than that rude bastard I met at the Crocker, damn he deserved a whooping. "Mata aeru hi made. Waving as she turns around and begins to head out to her bike to venture home to stream.

[Chambers]

As the night draws to a close he ponders the responses from but with the time allotted to them drawing to a close and the museum closing its doors soon, He will offer a small wave as she leaves. "While I have no doubt it would be a very pleasant evening. My schedule can be rather sporadic and sudden. It has become more about finding time where I can then making plans." He does not take the post it note. Not for a slight against her, only that with the risks of danger looming he was not about to touch anything anyone handed him if it could be avoided. "And I do thank you the evening I am glad I got you thinking." His smile is perfectly warm. Helped of course by having done his orders duty and performed a little bit of education today.

He will however ekk out each moment until the door shuts quietly contemplating what eh had heard this night turning the words over, examining them for nuggets of truth until he is eventually ushered out as one of the final people in the building.

That's 30 days thank you for the hoping in It was a great deal of fun!