Order Meeting VIII

[Corn]

Guru is quick to mention that the connections could very well lead to Chambers ' point of view. Well, he can't disagree with that.
"Yes, and thus I tried to clarify. Unsuccessfully as it seems. As of being careful of who we share the Truth with, which is one of the core tenets of the order...I am not sharing the truth with Sleepers! I have tried to make that very clear."
Corn is not sure about the rest of what Guru said about his child, so he didn't address that.


When Aurora mentions that these are things he should already know, he sighs.
"Yes, they are things everyone knows, Secrecy was the first thing I was told when I was found as a newly awaked mage! You do not have to repeat those to me.
Keeping the Mysteries a secret from Sleepers helps to preserve them from the Lie AND keeps our society safe AND a lot of others things we all know.
And I do know them. I realize that what I said to chambers back then could be taken wrong as Guru pointed out, but I am saying again and again, that I do not think we should teach Sleepers about Supernal Mysteries and everyone here seems to think I don't know why or that I don't have a conviction about it."


When Aurora mentions slander and then duel arcane, Corn shakes his head.
"As I said, I don't accuse Chambers of Slander. And I agree I have phrased what I meant to say poorly as you and Guru and Chambers pointed out. And I am trying to clarify what I said. As for squaring the circle, I wouldn't do that. I have much more pressing issues than Chambers using my words against me, even if I find the accusations aggravating and insulting, especially after I tried to clarify. "
He leaves unsaid that the other two also assuming that Chambers got the 'right' meaning of his words after his repeated clarifications is also quite upsetting.
Being accused of breaking secrecy, knowingly, or thinking to do it, is a pretty big accusation not just for a Mystagogue.
And the Guardians have actual reasons to hunt me down, without adding misunderstandings over my words to the file.


Then, Chambers... Chambers was getting a bit on his nerves with his arrogance and know-it-all stance, which is a common trait amidst Mystagogues.
"I didn't know you had access to that Arcana, Chambers. Thus why I said you or Aurora or whomever. Anyway... it is fortunate you have access to the required arcana. "
He took a breath and addressed everyone,
" Since there have been repeated misunderstandings, let me say it again, as clearly as possible:
I don't believe we should teach Sleepers about the Mysteries or the Supernal Magic. I don't believe we should break the Lex to teach Sleepers.
And I will repeat that as the test, to prove to you all that you should trust me a bit more."


Then, he turned to Chambers. "Feel free to use fate to cast a spell to turn water to ink or blood or coffee or whatever, with conditional duration. If I intentionally lie, the spell ends. And after you do, I will repeat what I said before:
I don't believe we should teach Sleepers about Supernal Magic. I don't believe we should break the Lex to teach Sleepers.
I do hope this will put this matter to rest.


To be clear: That is what I will say and you will see it is true. This is not a 'what Corn said months ago' but a 'what Corn believes' thing.
If you have issues with my wording, that's a different matter. I do not promise to make different statements that those aforementioned to. I do not promise to repeat word for word what I said to Chambers months ago. I do not promise that everything I said back then was correct. I do not promise to say that I didn't use titles in front of others, as I did. I admit that. Keep in mind, you did mention things that you shouldn't have in front of others, because standard protocol is to check. We have ways to check that don't require words or statements. So you're not spotless here, Chambers."


Then a pause. "I will also scrutinize your spell, to make sure the trigger is an intentional lie. Not that what I say will not contradict what I may or may not have said 3 months ago or what you thought I meant. " Or any other disingenuous thing, or that you don't end the spell prematurely to make it seem as if I lied.

Another pause. He has, unwittingly, given the wrong impression to Chambers about a respected Legacy. And while it pained him to admit another mistake, he had to.
"And just another thing. You said I mentioned some 'heretical example'. That was again, a misunderstanding. The people I mentioned are highly respected - in many circles. Do not claim that I called them heretics or breachers. I did not. Or I didn't intend to.
Look, I will make it clear: I gave you a wrong impression of them if you think that of them. I should not have mentioned them to you, as the Truth was horribly twisted." and that was most probably my fault, no way around it, but I was sure he would know them... "If you meet any of them, approach them with an open mind and make your own opinion. I didn't mislead you on purpose, I promise. "

[Guru]

"Unfit is negative, unformed, like clay." He said softly trying to be more positive and reinforce Chambers' instead of letting him dig at himself more. It was simple but it was True the difference was in the Knowing. The talk of passing further into the mysteries was on hold until Corn's issues were handled and he had answers to give Chambers, "Yea, I brought a cursed artefact to the Order. I talked about my plans and path forward, didn't think divination or prophecy came into play when I had a path forward for the Order?" A brow raised, it was truly a question and the tone implied that. Because there wasn't a casting after that, no divination or prophecy. He wouldn't put it past Campanella to know know Time though so it had to have been intentional. "For Clarification I was discussing the process of creating Thaumium since we had a shared passion for Alchemy and I'm not still anywhere closer than when I had started."


Corn who might have had the best of intentions just kept digging himself deeper, even if it was all true the presentation was awful. If it was the one thing the culinary arts taught him was that presentation mattered, and it mattered a lot. You know what else matters? Results. That cold chill ran down his spine as the echo of that recent loss chilled his heart even if it came mixed with conflict. "I guess it's my turn to be the calmer head. Let me see if I can summarize the issue. We're essentially worried Corn has broken Secrecy and shared knowledge with Sleepers, or will. The spell will take care of that.


"Corn, I hate to be that guy. 'Cause it's me, I'm usually that guy. But you talk far too much. Not just to Aurora's point, if we never discuss what we know outside these walls that's alright that's why we have these walls. Beyond that, you use ten words when two would do. Brevity is the soul of wit and your message has gotten lost. Originally and now. Not only did you misrepresent yourself, your ideas, but also a people apparently. I know it's not my place, quite literally, but I recommend patience and that we all take ten seconds and breathe to collect ourselves."


Woo, woo bullshit maybe but there was a practicality to it. Try to temper those stress responses back down. It seemed Chambers had the required knowledge and Corn would oversee the spell. Guru would see about summoning his own Supernal sight to witness it himself. Why waste the opportunity, Because it's about forgiveness not permission right? But I'm not going to be there to clean up the messes anymore. He could almost feel the slap against the back of his head, the grip on his neck, the heavy breathing in his ear. If you want to push the edge now, -you- have to pay the price. Every piece of evidence, every witness... and like the ghost he was, he was gone.


The spectre of the past stealing Aurora's reaction to his compliment but providing the escape he needed. He had a hard time seeing her as an Acanthus, the ramifications of the Time War doing much to correct an error in his estimation. But there was something about her timing that he could see it. "Only the truth now. But he didn't tell me much before retiring. What do we need? That is a lighter topic I might be able to help with but it seems like..." Elephant in the room needed dealt with. "I can't help with the s spell but, uh, can I summon my own sight to observe as well?"

[Chambers]

The part about his weight was just getting awkward so he lets that alone. They knew what they needed to know, knew there was more to it and that it was not related to his health. That is more then sufficient.

A nod does go to Guru however. "A donation is not always needed but yes the Mysterium Exemplum can focus around an object or a series of small revelations about magic." But if he had made a donation that was enough to get members from previous orders through the mystery of lessons so it would suffice. "The divination however is more of a problem. Without it you can't progress within the order." The creation of the perfected metals was something Corn had expressed an interest in during the last meeting and went someway to explaining the workshop set up in the order wing. "I am not a perfect judge but I am qualified to carry out and pass mages through the Exemplum it sounds like you passed to me. Now its just a matter of getting the divination done by a member of the order." Which was on the every growing list of things that needed to happen.

Allowing both Aurora and Guru to take their respective turns at admonishing the wayward mage while sitting back to prevent himself having to sigh as Corn just goes on and on digging deeper every time he opened his mouth. He sets all of his path mates nonsense, lies and and false knowledge in order and thinks it through. deciding to address the genuine needs of the order first.

A few moments more to keep himself centred. "What we need is tricky. There are things I can't revel to members of the order who have not yet completed the Arche." And that was that. A shame I had rather been relying on Aurora to be able to accomplish one of those tasks. "What we can work on together though is we need a minimum of two mages who are able to perform divinations." So disciples of time. "We also need a Mithraeum, a secret, sacred place to perform rituals."

Mithraeum is not a merit, if the Athenaeum gets up to size 5, security 5 and materials 5 I am happy to say that one of those rooms is secure enough to serve as a dedicated Mithraeum

A pause. "After that I will have to figure a few things out in order to get what we need." As neither Aurora nor Guru qualified to know of what he spoke and he he didn't trust corn plain and simple.

Speaking of. Back to the other major issue. I wonder just how many times he has been in this situation over the years? "I do not see how I could take it any other way. You made a clear statement about your allegiance to those who break the lex to teach sleepers about supernal truth." There really were no ifs ands or buts. "And besides Corn I have a lot of trouble trusting what you say given the frequency with which you have been caught in lies. How many mages pulled you up for it in the Consilium meeting?" One would be to many and it was several more then that. "And that was while you were asking for help." The time you would expect someone not be the most honest.

An internal sigh, the pathological lies were getting more frequent if that was possible. You don't accuse me of slander and in the next breath say I misuse your words against you. So which is it? But the man who lies so blatantly had other things he needed to address first. "Then Corn you are guilty of misleading those in this room because you said me or aurora or whoever could use fate to determine the truth." Clearly distinguishing us by name as examples of those who could do so, and seemingly without knowing.

The sigh is external this time. "Corn fate can't turn ink to blood or coffee or water. That would be the preview of matter." The thing your meant to be good at. However the next part brings a sterner stare. "Corn. you do not determine which parts of this fiasco of your own making are and are not put to the test. Attempting to prevent particular things being checked only makes you look very guilty." And that was what was really concerning, the blatant attempt to cover up his actions, that meant there was something he was trying to hide. So stricter measures will be needed. "I will ask you a series of yes or no questions. Relating to this matter. You will answer them yes or no. If further explanation is needed it will be asked for." Before Corn can dig himself further. "If you speak truly you have nothing to fear. I will ask nothing not relating to the issues we are currently discussing." Speaking of the actions of a guilty mind the next step of denial makes itself apparent. Deflection. "I make no claim to be perfect but pray tell what have I said that I should not?" Not above being corrected in his actions, but in truth all he saw here was a chance to show how little Corn knew once more.

But why wait when Corn seemed ready to show it all. "Corn. You will not scrutinize my spell because scrutiny doesn't work like that." Scrutiny was as basic as it got, one of the very first things a mage was taught and Corn didn't know how it worked. I might have to get the wider order involved just to have him actually educated. "Scrutiny can tell you the duration factor of a spell but not if the duration is conditional nor what the condition is." If a spell had a conjunctional fate component you could guess it might have a condition but that's as close as it got. "This bid to take knowledge you have no right to." The second time he had tried that in this meeting. "Spits in the eye of the precepts of the order." Or an attempt to intimidate me away from checking the truth. Either way it would not stand. "The conditions of a duration must be specified all present will hear me speak them." The list of basic things corn did not know apparently could fill a library.

To the final point he spreads his hands. "I made no claim you called them heretics. I am am calling them heretics because if they are teaching sleepers supernal truth in breach of the Lex as you stated they do. Then they are Heretics. If that is not the case I will apologise if I ever meet one." And tell them a mage is running around saying they breach the Lex by habit.

But back to the matter at hand. "At the meeting I said I would give you something to help your current plight. And I will That is the spell I am going to use to check the truth of your claims." Lets see if the carrot works better then the stick. "I will cast a spell that if it lasts and you answer my question honestly I will then use to determine if the person who kidnapped your son is known to you and provide a sympathetic connection to them if they are someone you know." His tone has remained that of the stern head teacher disciplining a very wayward student since the moment Corn started trying to dodge and control what he would be held accountable for. But he had said he would and Awakened words did have to mean something. If we don't put him right it reflects on the order as a whole.

[Aurora]

Finally, she sits, because, well, this wasn’t going to be a quick meeting. And it was testing her patience.

“Have you tried to make it clear? Because the more you try and explain, the muddier you make the water. You sometimes talk too much for your own good.” Sometimes, less was more.

“Oh, I don’t have repeat those to you? Then why are we here? Why are we having this discussion?” she asks point blank. “Because it sure seems like the discussion needs to be had.” Or they wouldn’t be having it. “You are not understanding the core of the issue, it’s your words and how you, well, word them. Discussions like that are dangerous, they walk a very, very fine line in our world. Some condone them, and some do not. Even broaching the subject can cause you to face punishment in some cities. Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it should. So why even bring it up? Why was it even on your mind? Do you see where it causes concern, where there is a problem? Because it doesn’t sound like you do, and that is very concerning.” Why did he bring it up with Chambers? It wasn’t something brought up in normal conversation between Awakened. She had never, not once, had that conversation.

“You kind of did.” But that was for Chambers to address. “But that, phrasing things poorly, is where the problem is. You don’t think before you speak, and you end up in these situations.” A sigh and shake of her head, “What is insulting is that we have to be having this conversation. I always saw you as overzealous at times, a bit too eager, and exercised caution around you. But didn’t think it would come to this point. That is aggravating. We should be able to trust those in our Order, and now we find ourselves in a position of wondering just how much of what you say is truth.” She never thought they would have this within their ranks.

“Again, why would I have access to that Arcana? I’m a Thyrsus Corn, I have never claimed to use Fate, I have no need for it.” Well, truth be told, it was a useful Arcana. But still, why would she have it?

Arms gently cross over her chest as she leans back, crosses a leg, “I’d be curious to know your stance on that when it comes your family. Because I have a feeling that it changes, it would certainly make your dual life a lot easier. And for all we know, that is why it was brought up in the first place.” It would make sense, open the kids mind.

Blinking, “Now, I’m no Acanthus, but pretty sure Fate doesn’t work that way, the whole turning ink into blood or whatever.” The irritation in her voice. “That being said, you are in no position to set the perimeters or the rules on this matter. If you wish to clear your name as badly as you say, accept what is offered. You are in no position to decide how this goes.” It could go to trail, but she would rather it not.

“I’m sorry Corn, but even what you said months ago still carries weight. Whatever was said, was said, you cannot undo it.” Sighing, “Chambers isn’t the one being accused here Corn, trying to muddy the waters and shift blame to make yourself look better and taint another is poor form. If Chambers has things to answer to, that is for another time, do not try and shift focus.” It was just sad.

Tell her you don’t understand how magic works without saying it. “You sure you understand how to scrutinize?” oh she needed a shot…or ten.

Eyes narrow, “Is that because you want them to know you respect them?” maybe she was just reading too much into his statements. Or maybe it was just feeding into her idea that he wanted to open the minds of his sleeper family.

But Gurus words had wisdom to them. Perhaps taking a deep breath was important in this. But it still wouldn’t lessen the severity of how severe this was.

Chambers statement on not sharing what was needed due to, reasons, was understood with a nod, “I understand. Once I find an Order that can get the Initiation done for me, I’ll let you know the date it is planned, and once completed, I’ll also let you know.” Because it would be completed, there was no way around it. For the Order, and her to succeed, she had to pass it, so she would.

But this whole matter just kept going in circles, with Chambers attempting to deal with the problem, and Corn just wanting to keep digging and circling. So, she just puts her head into her hands, then runs a hand through her hair.

Looking into her coffee cup, maybe she should make her coffee something stronger? It might help, might not. Could be fun, but at least she knows it’s Matter and not Fate.

[Corn]

@Guru gets a nod. The Thyrsus is right, no way around it.

I think I should take everyone's advice and speak less...
To Aurora , he replied:
"I don't know what arcana you or Chambers can use, it was a figure of speech. I didn't mean that fate was the only thing required I don't know why you all thought I meant only that is needed. My wife finding out that I had a double life, where I could do miracles would be the end of my marriage. All things considered, if she found out that my carelessness brought the attention of our enemies with the result of all her family dead or kidnapped... " he didn't need to finish that sentence. He didn't want to finish that sentence.

" I thought the issue was that some of you think I want to teach supernal magic to Sleepers which is dangerous and impossible. The reason I put 'perimeters' is because I am concerned you Chambers will try to trap me with things I said in the past. I admit I speak poorly and too much. We have ample evidence of that. If Chambers or anyone puts me to test not about my beliefs but on my words... I am indeed in trouble."

And then Chambers has him hook-line-and-sinker. "Yes! I agree to those terms!" Corn said, speaking before thinking, again. The shock and awe of the offer was such that his mind blanked-out.
What were the terms, exactly?
Then, he sheepishly said. "Soo... You will ask 'yes' or 'no' questions about... what exactly? Nevermind. You ask 'yes' or 'no' questions and I will answer honestly. If you need more info, you ask, is that correct? If so, please go on." He was leaning forward, eager for the questioning to begin.
I am getting closer, Cloud!

To not needlessly prolong this, I suggest Chambers asks all the questions at once, and I give all the replies at once. Alternatively, we could go to a different sub-thread, or do it in discord and post it here. Those are just suggestions of course

[Guru]

He was glad to see his contribution was good enough to make it through though his expression remained passive for the moment which shifted to a clear disappointment when he'd hit a roadblock upon needing the divination. It made sense and there wasn't room for an argument either way. He just gave his nod of ascent knowing he would need to leave once more to find a member to perform the divination but then again who could he trust? You're gonna have to drop that baggage sometime buddy. Though his frown deepened when what they needed couldn't be discussed further. "I can make some presumptions and at least start working on beefing up security around here. We can compartmentalize that so even if one of us is compromised the whole system doesn't go down." He shrugged, sometimes it benefited that he thought like a criminal first.


Short mattered settled for the moment as what seemed to be a dog piling occurred. He felt sympathy for Corn, certainly, but he'd done some of the digging himself. It was always best to leave room for reasonable doubt where possible. He pinched his nose and really wanted this to go differently, not for Corn's sake but because this pained him in other ways. "Emotions are running high, please remember we are beings of reason. We've already established Corn is a terrible communicator, likely misrepresented his point, and those people. I'm sure he could point us to the information so that we might make that judgement ourselves?" A look to Corn as he gave him the one lifeline he could think of, though judging by Chamber's reaction to his own digging for information that might be frowned upon. Can't blame a guy for trying right?


On that Topic the dissection of the applications of fate upon matter were somewhat interesting, though he'd still rather practice Alchemy. Using the application of your knowledge could you compel him to tell the truth? In a few ways but a direct application, not yet. "I can also synthesize Sodium Pentothal, Scoplamine, or a variety of other psychoactive substances used for those purposes. A direct manipulation of his neurochemistry would also allow for this effect but I'm not skilled enough and would want consent." He spoke about it coldly, clinically, because that's what it was to him. This was work now. He had to take a sip of coffee just to keep his throat from cracking up. Aurora's last question was the best on he had heard yet, his eyebrows shooting to the sky as his lips pursed in thought. "Hmmmm" Was all it got him to say but there was a lot to chew on there. Though it seemed Corn had agreed to the terms so a solution had been found, but it was always better to have options when needed.

[Chambers]

Aurora gets an appreciative smile. Someone is taking this seriously. "Divinations can be tricky for even the wisest among the awakened if you want a second opinion before you take your request elsewhere I am happy to give it." As someone who had completed the mystery of the principle other members could of course seek him out to over see it. If we had what we needed. Turning to Guru. "Yes that is something we can all work towards getting the physical infrastructure in place." He gets an affirming nod, the Sharman had the right idea. "I am also quite willing to dedicate my efforts to furthering my understanding of time so you can have your divination carried out swiftly. I am only an Initiate currently." Another thing on the to list. But this one at least had many reasons to be pursued. Turning then to Corn the man claimed completion of the arche had had shown knowledge of the phrases and signs to indicate that was true. "You are a master of matter." Corn claimed, and shown adept level magics in the last meeting which was enough for what they needed. "That means you have advanced knowledge of the practice of perfecting." A knowing look came with this olive branch, a way for Corn to contribute to the needs of the order. I just hope he understands what I am getting at.

It would seem I have managed to pin him to the wall at last. Corn's swift and immediate acceptance of his terms the moment even the potential for a lead was dangled in front of him in and of its self a little concerning. And how often do I think I can pull this trick off?. It really shouldn't have had to come to this. "Our words, our actions are the external manifestations of internally held beliefs. We are beings in control of ourselves and are held to account by what we say and what we do." By what other measure do we have. And given the impact they have how could we do otherwise.

"Very well then. the spell I am going to use will not harm you. Try not to resist it." This was what he had offered Corn regardless at the Consilium meeting, so he had come prepared. From the pockets of his jacket several items are brought forth.


a bleached white smoking pipe that goes between his teeth.

Ten tea light candles
A box of matches
A stick of white chalk
A sealed plastic lunch bag containing several fish bones, chicken bones, and a few rib bones
A spool of blue thread

The jacket itself comes off. "I would suggest not talking after I cast this except to answer questions." He stands from his seat in one of the window alcoves, folding his jacket in a loose rectangle as he does so which he places on the alter in the centre of the room. Taking the pipe from between his teeth to hold in his hand by the bowl he articulates with the stem at Corn as he speaks.

"Until such a time as Magus Corn speaks a lie so shall his name in the moment be scribed." The magic of his legacy, the scribing of names.

The chanting of high speech the fragments of Atlantean language, clear and reverberating follow as he sets his will in place. Looking to connect to Stygia to find the imago and bring it into the fallen world.

Scribe Corn's final name 5 successes

Date	Action	Roll	Result
2024-10-29 16:33:07	Chambers rolls 12 to Scribe final name (int 3, occult 3 (+1 order specality), fate 3, HS 2,) (10 Again)	2, 10, 10, 9, 7, 7, 3, 5, 7, 6, 10, 7, 8, 1, 5	5 successes

His rote one of the most familiar castings he knows forms well the golden glyph is artistic in its patterns and refined in its complexity each line of it starting in form in a perfect harmony, taking all of three seconds to made manifest in reality.

What appears on the back of his jacket is a vast amount, a myriad array, of tiny numbers and equations written in every and no direction or pattern, some spiralling or folding back on themselves, different fonts and sizes some entwining, some overlapping others crossing some distant from others it is a mathematicians worst nightmare and would translate to absolute gibberish. "This Corn is your momentary name. A record of every sympatric connection you have to anyone and anything. Down to the faintest connection such as the driver who stalled his car two streets away that caused you to be five minutes late to work would be a hypothetical example. The dandelion you stepped on crossing a field when you were six could be another hypothetical example." Corns life sprawled before them in the numbers. "If you are honest I will use another of my legacies rotes to read this and see if I can find a connection to the kidnapper of your son." It was no small boon he was offering the man.

Scribe final name

Settling back into his seat.

"Corn.

Did you say to me that you are more in line with those who teach sleepers supernal truths even in breach of the Lex?

Do you believe we should tech sleepers supernal truths, in breech of the Lex?

Have you taught one or more sleepers supernal truth in breech of the Lex?

Have you tried to teach one or more sleepers supernal truth in breech of the Lex?

Have you tried to facilitate an awakening of a sleeper successfully or not, in breech of the Lex?" A pause between each question to give the other mage a chance for his response.

He starts there if more would be needed was down to both Aurora and Guru who could ask Corn questions while his golden glyph held for all with mage sight to see. Or depending how Corn answered more might be to come.

[Aurora]

“Sure sounded like you did where you named Chambers and I specifically and didn’t even mention Guru.” But, whatever. She was already done with this. There were more important things she had hoped to cover during this meeting, yet here they were, trying to put out another fire caused by Corn.

Sighing, “I have no reason to try and trap you in anything Corn. You will trap yourself if given the time. I have my own life to worry about, my own goals I’m working towards. Do you think so highly of yourself, and so poorly of me that I would sacrifice my own time and energy to think of ways to trap you?” come on.

A glance to Guru, “Security is always a good thing in my book, can never have too much of that.” Especially if they plan on holding anything of value here.

“I’ll admit, my patience is wearing a bit thin,” she says to her fellow Shaman, “but this is second time I’ve had to be concerned with my safety and the safety of those I care about. The cause for those concerns coming from the same individual. I like to think I’m keeping it in check at the moment. Misrepresenting one’s word is one thing, but if what Chambers is saying is true, then we have a whole other problem, and it’s not miscommunication. It’s not something a slap on the wrist will fix. This is major.” Her tone grave.

But as Chambers begins to pull out items, she’s quiet and watches.

Hearing what Chambers then says, she looks to Corn, could he only speak to answer the questions? A true test right there. The man with a thousand words when one two would do the trick.

When the spell works and takes hold, her eyes widen in delight to see it take hold. The fonts and numbers, spiraling and dancing, was a beautiful sight to her. It was hard to take her eyes off and focus on what else was being said, but she does.

Then the questions. Direct and to the point.