(2404) Consilium

[Corn]

Corn nods to Aurora , Chambers and Winter "Since most of us feel that way, then I think it can be considered settled? Acknowledgement comes from a person of the path, with simple questions and if the person is evasive or refuses to answer in a satisfactory manner, then the person is refused acknowledgement but not considered an enemy. Just an 'outsider'. Did I get that right? I can live with that.
As for writing the questions down..." He shrugs " Aurora, the wording when I was asked last month was nice. I don't remember it word for word. I remember the 'whether you bring trouble for the rest of us with you' parts and I remember the 'promise to be there, fight and support if needed' parts. I don't remember the wording. Do you? And wording is important. So, Chambers, if it is not a big bother it would help me to have the wording that was well thought and concise, written somewhere. "

He takes a look around his peers. "If that is it and we agree, then the acknowledgement part and this official business goes surprisingly fast and smooth. Much better than I expected. " It seems it is actually possible for five mages to have a discussion and find common ground.

[Philip Crosen]

Aurora doesn`t get a response, but her last words on the subject get a nod of understanding. He just wanted that topic to be over, and he understood his mistake. Fortunately the others were already on to the business at hand and it seemed, so was she. Corn meanwhile was counting his chickens before they hatched, it seemed. Corn was right on one point though, granted Philip didn`t have a large sample size, but from his experience there hadn`t been any problems as everyone had remained civil.
"Let`s just wait and see about smooth or fast."
he told Corn, trying to reign in his enthusiasm, before continuing.
"But ok, if everyone else agrees we can write down the wording for future acknowledgements and go with that?"
After all, it seemed to him that Chambers, himself and Corn were for that idea and Chambers had even suggested writing it. He was not sure whether decisions would have to be unanimous, but he expected they would have to be. He thus then turned to look at Winter and Aurora questioningly, before nodding at Winter`s observation, which to him was again quite obvious but also very relevant this time.
"As for who`s an enemy when, they`d have to truly badly break our trust for that to happen, or straight be allied to the Abyss or Seers. If it ever happens, as far as I`m concerned. And as you say, they wouldn`t spell that out conveniently. Otherwise if they just refuse to cooperate then yep, Lex is of course the default standard as usual."
Last time, during the previous Consilium, he mostly held his tongue when Witch said that. This time, however, he found what he felt were the right words for the occasion. This was helped in no small part by the fact that he considered Chambers his friend.
"What a shame. And here I thought we were all gonna do everything my way. But alas."
he said, smirking to Chambers. The tiniest bit of regret formed in his mind that they weren`t in fact going to do everything his way. But this was not in his voice and certainly not anywhere to be seen on his face or in his gestures. It was a friendly jest, that they`d hopefully see for what it was. That said, he only approved of assemblies anyway if they did what he wanted them to, so he actually agreed with Chambers on his point.
"That said, if we`re going to continue handling it by the way you suggest, path then first contact. Then you`re right of course. With that I`d also agree to consider that matter mostly settled for the time being."
he said, back to being serious and nodding to Chambers, who transitioned magnificently to the next point on the agenda, security. Though everyone was of course still free to respond to the first point, if they wished, and Philip didn`t know if it was truly already over. I don`t know. I would have expected some more pushback from Winter or Aurora. Maybe it`s still to come? Let`s see. After all, Chambers had found a way to combine the acknowledgement question with the security question.
"That covers infiltrators, mostly. As for direct attack, so we just hope the wards and our will are strong and our precautions vigilant enough? What should we do if we discover a Seer in the Circle who we don`t have the power to destroy? Cause I don`t think I have the power to destroy them like you did."
he asked, turning to Aurora, though it was a question meant for all.

[Winter]

"Whatever you'd do if you've ever caught by a cabal of banishers. When you're outnumbered and outgunned... run, and come back with help", they were turning an ant into a hill. But frankly, acknowledgement was the last on the list of his priorities.

[Aurora]

Nodding along with what Chambers says, “It also leaves it open to why one would refuse an acknowledgement and others green light it. We will always get people coming into our community that don’t mesh well with one or two people, but have not broken any laws. So do we reject them because their personality doesn’t sit well with one? It can be a slippery slope.” Because she never said Puck wasn’t welcome, she just kept her opinions to herself.

“I think it’s a bit premature to say it’s settled; I would like to hear what Philip has to say on it.” His opinion was important to hear.

“I don’t remember the wording from when I was a Councilor, I usually just winged it and asked questions based off whoever I was talking to.” Shrugging.

Looking to Philip, “The way I handled Seer’s is not a way I recommend. Did it work? Yes. But at a cost.” A pretty steep one too. “Would I do it again? In a heartbeat to defend those around me and our community. I don’t have advice on what to do if you walk in here and find a Seerer, not everyone is a fighter. It comes down to survival, do what you need to do. But I also don’t believe the defenses of the Circle are a problem. They do what they are designed to do, nothing more, nothing less.” This was bringing back the talk years ago about security cameras. That was…interesting. “I would like to know what defenses are in question and what the ideas are.” She was willing to hear them out.

[Chambers]

Just a few final details it seems. ''The words are not precise. They are not binding oaths it was more the sentiment behind them but yes I can put something up for anyone who feels they would prefer to use something more laid out.'' Or don't trust themselves to remember in the moment. Not everyone has decent recollection after all and it could be months or years before one path or another might need them. ''But yes I think settled.'' With everyone either having said there piece and been more or less on the same page. Or not commented at all when given the chance.

As for refusal. He takes a moment o marshal his thoughts. ''Personality should not come into it.'' I say should we are only human. ''My issue with Puck was his unwillingness to do things in the way the Consilium had agreed they would be done at the last meeting.'' lets try this. ''One of the questions asks of what if any dangers do you bring with you. Answering that a pylon of seers knows of you and actively hunts you is not grounds for refusal.'' Witch had been clear and her personally agreed. With guardians again. ''If they answer the questions and agree then that should be that.'' Take everything else out. ''If they do not then they can come back when they are ready to commit.'' Because that is what we ned commitment to get this place back up and running.

He nearly takes Philips bait. Nearly. But even a light jest feels it could derail what a conversation fraught with enough pitfalls as is, that at the moment seems to be going well on the whole.

He nods. ''Well said Winter.'' An important lesson. ''We don't need or expect martyrs.'' There would be a time to fight. ''Fighting in defence of the circle might well mean running for help. It's still action taken to deal with the threat at hand most effectively.'' Sometimes fighting smart would need to trump fighting powerful. Especially for the less combat orientated among us.

''The circles defences are admirable. Unique perhaps even.'' I have certainly never seen anything like it. ''But that does not mean we can't do something ourselves.'' Looking around the table. ''I am very aware we have none of the arrow present. And I am certainly no substitute.'' So if I do encounter anything it'll be time to practice that running trick. ''But there is nothing stopping me from visiting the circle everyday to walk around check nothing is out of place. No doors have had the locks removed.'' He quickly injects on himself. ''I am not advocating or even suggesting entering another orders space. Simply walking past everywhere.'' And of course. ''With sight up to keep a regular check on the resonance of the place and note any significant changes.'' We can't cast on the circle but we can do that. ''Simple measures but they might add something.''

[Corn]

The discussion seems to have moved to Circle Security.
"I am concerned about bad actors, whether Seers or Banishers or an angry mage, could simply walk in and leave an angry spirit or ghost inside the premises. Zeromancer had no issues walking in here with his ghosts, nor anyone had an issue bringing haunted items or possessed items here in the past. " A passing glance at Aurora *
"Cameras are something that can very easily be bypassed or even used against us. Someone with some skills could hack the camera - or talk with its spirit or whatever - and even a disciple of matter can jury-rig a gun on a camera to start shooting at us. Not able to cast spells on the circle is not the same as not being able to cast spells on items in the circle. And in any case, cameras that nobody is watching are not going to help.
The defenses of the circle are adequate for most things except from someone acting from within. That's what I am trying to say. And that is not something we can easily address, is it?

It more or less circles back to what Winter said last month: it will eventually come to us to defend the Circle and ourselves or - as he suggested now - to be smart enough to run and bring back-up to defend the Circle and the consilium.
I do have some ideas and suggestions for how we could boost the magical defenses, some of which I could do myself, but does anyone feels there is a need to boost the defenses? If most of us think the effort is not worth it, there's no reason to start listing magical traps and measures."

* When The Mysterium brought something that was haunted we had the item - and the ghost - in the Mysterium headquarters and Corn was talking with the ghost without issues. Aurora is aware of that as she was in the team that brought that item in the circle and was later informed when Corn managed to send the ghost to the afterlife, after weeks of Dina the ghost being in the Athenaum.

[Philip Crosen]

"No, I agree. Refusing to acknowledge someone because of personality clashes or any personal differences is unprofessional, in my opinion. Unless this directly affects the security of the Consilium as a whole. But yes, if they can`t stay neutral, regardless of the reason, I`d say the others present should weigh in on it. I will stress though, that I delayed Puck`s acknowledgement not because he turned his back on the Free Council, but like Chambers said, because he didn`t answer my questions. And because I thought him a suspect in the situation with the Mysterium section. You probably noticed I reversed my position and acknowledged him once you vouched for him. Although I will admit, I still don`t like him. But I believe we can only become better as a whole if we check each other. That`s why I originally liked the system we had when we were even fewer, with consensus acknowledgement. Well, admittedly I`m biased of course. Though I accept that we need to evolve with the number of mages there are.So I agree that the system of Path followed by first contact is the way to go. And as for wording, as I said, we need to be clear on what we want from someone and I could see writing this down could help with that."
he said, answering Aurora as best he could with a neutral, but deadpan and serious expression, but glancing to Winter, Corn and Chambers briefly too as he mentioned their points. He did reiterate some of his points, but he wanted to make his position extra clear. After all, she had explicitly asked for his opinion, much to his surprise. Perhaps I got more of her trust than I thought? he mused, before weighing in on the defense question.
"Cost? Oh dear. Anyway, I guess that`s the best we can do at this point: be vigilant, keep our eyes open, and run when faced with a superior adversary, got it. But to be honest, I don`t know much about the full defense capabilities of the Circle, so all I`m saying is that we should be prudent. With that in mind I second Corn`s idea of additional magical defenses. I mean, it might be very difficult. But it should hardly be completely impossible if we work together to set up additional wards, right?"
he suggested, giving Winter and Aurora especially, questioning looks on his reiteration of Corns idea with his own little twist on it. Well, that was before cringing at the capabilities Corn revealed what an individual with his level of Matter mastery was capable of. A truly sobering thought, once again reminding him in what company he currently was.
"I mean, if as you say cameras are only a half-measure, then what`s the point of `em? Especially if they can be turned into a hindrance? Because, Matter adepts running around turning cameras into sentry guns? Add that one to the bucket list. So Corn, what ideas do you have? "
he asked, turning to face him. Corn had clearly piqued his curiosity. And it seemed to him that Corn had also piqued Chambers` curiosity as well. Meanwhile, Chambers` idea to go running around the Circle with Mage Sight on, got a nod of approval. Clearly, they were on the same wavelength here.

[Winter]

"Hold on. I think you're missing something crucial", he interrupts them, at this point the discussion has grown into directions he didn't anticipate, "nobody owns or has the right to control the Circle. You may not welcome someone into your fold, but that doesn't mean the Circle won't welcome that person", he remembers a similar conversation in the past, that one time - he had learned to recognize - he was in the wrong, sitting the opposite side from now.
"This isn't our personal fortress, we're just guests. But at the end of the day, this place will treat every enemy of the Lie equally.", he then looks at the Mystagogues, "The situation with the Mysterium section?"

[Aurora]

“I have no issues if people want to take the time to walk around the Circle.” Would she do it? Probably not. But she trusted the Circle and whatever defenses had already been built into it.

An eyebrow raised, “Zeromancer had ghosts? His own ghosts?” when did that happen? “I don’t remember him ever talking about having personal ghosts, so how do you know? Because if that was something he confided to you, then you have no business sharing it.” Point fucking blank. If she understood the look, she didn’t say or show, “Sure, that could totally be a thing. And if it is, then we deal with it. You cannot stop others from coming in here, even if they have ill intent. Hell, we’ve had them completely ignore the Circle and its already established defenses and just fuck with everyones Time and history. So there isn’t going to be something we can do as a whole to prevent anything. What is important is everyone knows their strengths, and weaknesses, and works on getting comfortable and better with their magic. No place is one hundred percent safe.” You just learn to adapt and defend yourself.

Shaking her head, “No Corn, it isn’t something you can easily address. There will come a time when someone is going to come here with ill intentions, it’s just a fact of our lives. Only thing you can do is be ready.” Why was this becoming such a thing?

Back to Philip, “I wasn’t questioning why you delayed the acknowledgement; you had sound reasons. I was just saying what I said for everyone as a whole. I, personally, stayed out of it because of my own personal issues with him. And those issues were mine and mine alone. I didn't want my issues with him to cloud or affect anyone's judgement."

Glancing to Winter, “The Mysterium section was broken into, the lock completely removed from the door.” No sense in it being a secret.

I don't need personal reminders of what Aurora remembers and what she does not. When there is a doubt, I am capable of looking it up. Messages like that will be ignored by me.

[Chambers]

General rule: Do not take liberties with other people's characters. -- Players have control over if their characters remember details/events etc or not unless an ST calls for a roll to recall something or they choose to make one themselves. OOC messages should not be used to try paint other characters into corners or force them into a certain way of thinking.

Chambers nods agreeing. ''Cameras are of little to no use. At worst an active detriment.'' The talk of ghosts however. ''Now that I think can be fixed if we have the capabilities.'' Pause. ''Wards and bans can be limited or have exceptions placed into them. Would not not be easy enough to say no ghost or spirit not given permission by an acknowledged member can't enter the premises?'' Not something I can currently do myself. ''It would require a rather large undertaking though. But something to work for perhaps?'' Given we lack warlocks who understand such things best we will have to make do once more. Theme of the discussion really. ''What else did you have in mind Corn?'' It couldn't hurt to hear after all. Providing he stops telling everyone other mages secrets.

To Philips point he strokes his chin considering. ''If the path member in question can't be neutral then it moves to the next path member or if none are present the next point of contact that can surely. We don't need to put the person seeking acknowledgement on parade for all to consider.'' We've seen how that goes. The nodding. ''Yes a degree of cooperation will definitely help us protect both each other and the circle from those who wish it and us harm.'' While I get we are all separate and unique, but we have all agreed to be part of a larger community.

For the first time in a while Winter says something he disagrees with, considers foolish even. If what you told me is true the circle welcomes Seers just as readily as anyone else. ''Winter unless your about to let be known that circle has sentience tucked away somewhere it is still a building. A true miracle of one, the greatest act of will working I have seen. But a building subject to whatever wards, bans and rules went into it's construction. And as we know. It does not keep mages out.'' Because they walk in semi frequently. ''If for example you found me poking through an orders wing not my own, and routing through their stuff you would allow it, you would not in fact remove me with whatever means you have because I am not a member of the order in question?'' Same principle applies. ''Now just because someone does not join up does that me we can stop them hanging out here, realistically no. But they should not be treated as a defacto member until they are ready to commit.'' That's my point, we need to have some degree of trust and those who show up don't get to set the terms, they earn it by meeting ours. ''If they don't like that they have to join up, then I am of the mind they can move on.'' I won't waste my time on it. Then he looks at Winter with a raised eyebrow. ''The missing lock ... the thing I made known back in January ... at the last meeting.'' The thing the circle and all its wards did not prevent.

Wait fuck with their what? Quickly turning his attention to Aurora. ''...'' He fails to finds words to express either concerns or questions. Instead taking a breath. I'll ask later. ''No total defence is not possible, we should never pretend it is. I agree. But diligence, preparation and investment can all make the difference when the time does come.'' And that it will I am of no doubt.