Lex and Councillors

[Sand]

Aurora's arrival warrants a smile of greeting.

Accepting the wine from Campanella w/ "Thank you."

A moment 2/ enjoy the first taste of wine. Then an eyebrow lifted toward Samael, "I wasn't aware things weren't right."

"Why would we include Cabal information in the Lex? I agree with Campanella that that might be better suited to a Charter."

Eye the tome.

"In my opinion I think we should maybe consider less airing out what was from before and perhaps simply working from the ground up. Sacramento has changed- thanks to the Seers in more than just having new faces. It's very history has changed. I do not know how comfortable I am with putting my faith in a Lex that reflects a past that has been so touched."

[Aurora]

Oh, the Lex.

But was she councilor? She never actually stepped down, and boy wonder never backed up his Duel. So where did that leave her? Not that it really mattered, the Lex needed to be taken care of, logistics could be dealt with later.

“Well, I’m no Factotum either, almost was, but that’s besides the point.” A shrug. “What were you thinking in regards to the Cabals?”

Seemed it was time to put her training while a Ladder to use.

“In my opinion,” even though it hadn’t been asked for, she was still going to give it, “Cabals would be better addressed in the Charter. The Lex itself should focus solely on the Laws. Least, that’s how I see it. I’ll defer to the Ladder on this.” A smile offered to Samael.

“Uh, I think I’ll start with coffee thanks. Keep my head clear, I haven’t had to use any of my Lex knowledge in quite a few years.” She says with a lopsided grin.

Chuckling to Samael, “Well, I’ll remember that when it comes up.” Cause it was going to come up. No way what’s his face was going to let it drop that easily.

So two for Cabals.

Nodding to Sand, “I agree completely, that’s an excellent point. Everything is different, and we should have a Lex that represents that. With that in mind, we could be here all night writing a brand new one. Did we want to take a marker to the Laws we feel no longer suit Sacramento as it stands today? That way we are left with the bare bones of a basic Lex and add in what would benefit us here and now? Or just take the whole thing, toss it, order in some more coffee and go from there?” she asks, “I’m ok either way.”

[Campanella]

"Fair enough."

Campanella settled back into his seat.

"Fair enough. I can bring up my views when we next review the Charter. As for the Lex... Let us not be hasty in rebuilding it from the ground up. While the intention is wonderful, I feel that we would simply be reworking ground that has already ben covered. As you will note, the Lex as it is adequately covers the Laws. I will admit we can work to clean out some of the more obscure precedents that no longer have meaning, which will help reduce the Lex's overall size and complexity..."

He gestured to the thick, heavy, tome.

I don't think we need to go changing any wiki stuff, which covers all the important points and remains quite generic in any case. I do note that [I]in the fluff,[I] it is mentioned how large the Sacramento Lex is, so perhaps we can do that without having to fiddle with anything else.

[Sand]

"I suppose from the ground up is a bit of an overstatement on my part."

Throw out assumptions of other researchers in a new project? Yes.

Throw out fundamental laws of physics? No.*

"The Precepts of Secrecy, Recognition, Protectorate, Hubris and War. What more is needed at this time?"

A frown.

"We already have. Unless you have some wisdom to share in keeping anything regarding Cabals in the Lex, that aspect will be covered in the Charter. As Aurora put it, we can marker that out and move on.

*Unless experiment was to challenge those laws. Separate case. Not applicable here.

Idk- I'm cool with updating the Wiki. It has a lot of words. I think it might not be a bad idea to just go with the RAW base Lex Magica.

Or at least... for those that want to keep stuff, argue to keep those points in. So start from the basic 5 and then convince the group of any others that needed to be added. Rather than accept everything as is and argue stuff away.

I think that with only 4 people in this scene, it shouldn't be too difficult for us to monitor ourselves and the conversation. I would prefer to let the IC conversation flow naturally.

[Aurora]

There was a nod as she looks at the tome.

“Another good point. Making it less complex and easier to understand would be a good thing for those not familiar with such things. Straight to the point and clean cut are sometimes the best ways to go with these types of things.” She hated over worded things, it only complicated things.

“Plus, if things are condensed, there is less room for someone to argue.” She had a feeling they had some new faces that would look for things to argue about.

She also got a cup of coffee and carefully sipped it.

“Sure.” The Cabals were an easy place to start.

“There is also the Great Rights, but that’s generally decided by the Cabal as to which ones they wish to abide by. But I believe those are the major ones, the ones you listed. With those in mind, are the Verdicts agreeable?”

[Campanella]

Campanella nodded and inclined his head slightly toward Samael.

"I find the important verdicts are indeed fine." He said.

"As for Cabals, I was thinking of perhaps clarifying how they are constituted under the Consilium - I felt this could be important given how much our numbers can now fluctuate."

He leaned in.

"Simply put, perhaps the Charter then should indicate that the Consilium recognises a Cabal as a group of two or more Awakened who possess a Shared Sanctum.

"I know that in the past the rule of thumb was that a Cabal was constituted of three individuals. Which can sometimes be difficult to build and maintain in the long run. I... I have some experience of this, myself. Once I was part of a group called The Exchange and we did indeed secure a shared sanctum. However our numbers failed and in the end it was only myself and an empty Sanctum. I would prefer to spare others such a sad experience.

"Hence why I believe that two - two individual mages - should be our baseline. I understand that might seem much to easy, and so I would add the further stipulation that the pair - or larger group - need to have established a Shared Sanctum of their own. I believe that this would be... equitable. Nidhogg's Bane has a Sanctum. I am sure the other Cabals do too."

So a minimum of two characters and some xp deposited on a Sanctum merit shared between them. I don't think that is particularly onerous. Thoughts?

[Sand]

A look of puzzlement.

Reaching 4/ backpack to pull out notebook. Pages flipped, 2/ quick 4/ more than glance. Sound of disappointment as notebook is closed.

"I won't lie- it's been a while since I was briefed on this," a hand wave @ the room. "But I thought the Great Rights were part of the Gold Laws. And thus not necessarily just for a Cabal to decide upon. A cabal decision would be an Iron Law."

Re: Verdicts
1st- skim down the related verdicts listed
2nd- nod

Meeting Samael's eyes. Not nodding.

"Right now is absolutely the time to do it. We are here for that very reason are we not? To discuss Sacramento's Lex Magica. To insure that it is appropriate for the Consillium that is trying to be established.

Despite it being 4/ Aurora, answer provided "That is... backwards. You do not create complex laws with the intent to simplify later. Complications, exemptions, clarifications... those will all come naturally."

Entropy. It was called entropy.

Re: that being the greatest concern
Not going to touch.

Wine= needed. A drink.

Leaning forward, "Not that I'm necessarily against this definition of a Cabal but... again... aren't we here to discus the Lex? Not the Charter?"

Or did Samael consider the Lex conversation over and done with? Indications= yes.

"If we are discussing the Charter... shouldn't there be more of us in the room? Is that truly a Councilor exclusive thing? Oh- and what about those who are not in a Cabal?"

Even if access to notes on this were @ hand, confidence that appropriate info would be within? 10% Disappointing? Yes. On which side? Unknown.