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West
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:47 am
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 Posting speeds (ATTN SOUL)
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Hey, I know you don't have a chance to get on as much as some of us, and I respect that. I had no qualms when you "ret'con'ed" interjecting yourself into West's approaching Karma & Arch initially, because it was "your" scene.
However, when you follow "faster" players into another scene (leaving the club, going to the restaurant) you should give them the same respect, in my opinion as a player, and abide by whatever twists and turns they dictate, as it is now "their" scene. An ST started the restaurant scene. By rule, the old scene is finished. Closed. In the history book, so to speak.
It just feels a lot like you're using OOC knowledge to "rewrite" history.
If you want to detect my lie, fine. Then I want a roll to detect your suspicion. Then I'll take the appropriate measures, and suddenly the whole restaurant scene has to be re-written.
I just wanted to get that off my chest, and maybe I'm wrong. Again, this is just my viewpoint as a player in those scenes.
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
Last edited by West on Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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West
Mage Moderator
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 1655
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Location: Houston, TX
Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:54 am
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p.s. I like you, I like your character, I'm not trying to "shut you out". I just don't appreciate having "dice thrown" at my character retroactively.
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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Soul
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Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 253
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:44 am
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| Quote: | | However, when you follow "faster" players into another scene (leaving the club, going to the restaurant) you should give them the same respect, in my opinion as a player, and abide by whatever twists and turns they dictate, as it is now "their" scene. An ST started the restaurant scene. By rule, the old scene is finished. Closed. In the history book, so to speak. |
First off, the old scene was not closed but re-directed, which means I am still a part of it, and yet you have moved on to the point where West and Karma are not even with Marius any more. That I believe was rude, however I know you as a player and ST and know you are fair, which is why I don't mind the leap.
I do expect to be allowed to leap with you however and play my character as I see him.
| Quote: | | It just feels a lot like you're using OOC knowledge to "rewrite" history. |
This I don't really understand. Marius was trying to eave-drop on you and Karma even at the club. Nothing has changed in that regard, only that you peaked his curiosity even more, by blatantly casting Magic in front of him.
Hence nothing has really changed... I did give you Marius' aura, which contained suspicion, after you cast the spell. Instead of waiting to see his reaction though, you moved on without it, which to me means West did not bother with Marius' aura.
| Quote: | | If you want to detect my lie, fine. Then I want a roll to detect your suspicion. Then I'll take the appropriate measures, and suddenly the whole restaurant scene has to be re-written. |
How would you react, if a Vampire used a discipline right under your nose? Wouldn't you be suspicious? Wouldn't you want a chance to detect it?
If this is such a big issue, then you shouldn't have jumped two scenes without involving the author of the original scene.
| Quote: | | I just wanted to get that off my chest, and maybe I'm wrong. Again, this is just my viewpoint as a player in those scenes. |
I really appreciate that you opened this topic so that we can talk this through. i don't want to sound like a cry-baby with my responses.
I just feel that if you can jump two scenes ahead of me, without including me, then I should have the right reserved to do what my character would do in such a situation, and from what I understood you agree with me on this, so let's try to resolve the OOC part.
Like I mentioned above: Marius is curious and has tried to "spy" on you before already. This is just his curious nature playing out, and in essence a part of his Vice.
If you feel West would've done anything different if he saw the swirling suspicious colors, then by all means, I can re-adjust my rolls.
I will still come to the club Avalon even more suspicious/curious however, since Stone all of a sudden knew where you are going when you two didn't even talk.
Marius isn't going to sit with the two love-birds through a dinner he can't even digest 
So the only difference is whether or not Marius detects your very abrupt disappearance act (which he might still find out, as he left almost immediately after you teleported and should've arrived around the same time, where as you've already been there for quite a while...)
I have to apologize about my incoherent writing, my mind is a bit all over the place right now ^^ I hope I managed to get my points across though.
If not, it might be better if we chatted (logging on to msn...)
_________________
Mars Delven (Marius) - Pro 1, Coil of the Soul 1, Striking Looks **** [angelic, iridescent eyes (green/blue)]
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Dredloke
Requiem ST
Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:14 pm
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OK this is something that has been going on and lots of us, myself and LF included, keep moving a thread along in an attempt to have fun.
We all need to remember that others cannot mirror or times on.
I am going to take this to the board room to see how far we shouuld take a thread before letting others have a chance to post.....
LF at work cannnot get on as much and an entire scene played out that she would have attemtped to stop but could not. It is things like this that we as a community need to think about and need to try and limit.
As to curiosity.....we are all curious so that I would have to agree upon. The biggest thing is speed of posting....if three people are in a scene two should not bounce back and forth for 8 posts without giving the other a chance to voice or act.
Dred
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Kai
Mage ST
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:35 pm
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I know its difficult for some, but maybe there should be some guidelines and a rating system for posting speeds for users. I know i personally like it when a thread moves quickly, and with some sort of rating system for the users, a user would know when they were getting involved in a thread that will probably move quickly.
What I hate is when Im having a great time in a thread, and then have to stop and wait for two days for someone to make a one line post...
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Kai: SS(*), MS(*), FS$( 8), SA$(20) ,SH$(17), M:12/15, W:8/9,H:13/13
Occultation ***
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West
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008
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Location: Houston, TX
Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:38 pm
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I think everyone has valid points... and I want it to be clear that I don't object to the outcome. Heck, Stone told Marius where we went, and we never came back from the bathroom. You didn't even have to make an Auspex roll to know that something weird happened.
What I object to is you retroactively throwing dice specifically at my character. Not at the scene, or the circumstances, but *at me*. It would be akin to you logging on, finding out I had gotten an ST to look up your Resistance Attribute, and thrown spells at you (which I have deliberately not done). For you to roll dice, get one success, and assume it's all gravy is BS. As the dice showed, it wasn't a success.
In that scenario, it's not a big deal. I just don't want to see you try to retroactively use a Discipline, claim one success, and move on, without me ever having a chance to throw my dice. That's my objection.
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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tsameti
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:55 pm
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For clarity, and to make it easier for PCs to play together, it's such a good idea to make dice rolls preemptively just to be safe.
What I mean is, if you take an action against (or in the presence of) another player character (like lying to them or casting a vulgar spell) then throw some dice down. The other player may choose to RP through the situation, let the lie slide, or contest the action. But at least they have the option right away.
Bonus points if you spell out what happens if they successfully contest your roll.
Also we all know how hard it is to wait for thread responses. You just want to get in there and have fun, and when three out of four players are online I know I can get carried away. But we do have to take into consideration that it isn't always fair to the other player.
It's a balancing act, keeping the fun going without leaving people behind. But as long as we have an open honest dialog between players OOC I think we can feel out fair paces by trial and error.
It's been a fairly big influx of new players as I understand it, and the water will be choppy for just a little bit longer I think. But we'll get it.
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Ruby: Listen for that Hollow Sound, Supernal Vision
Grobbler: Ogre Bandersnatch, Autumn Mantle 2
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Kai
Mage ST
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:59 pm
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If you limit the speed of thread posts, what you will find is that players will naturally leave the scenes once a slower posting player enters.
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Kai: SS(*), MS(*), FS$( 8), SA$(20) ,SH$(17), M:12/15, W:8/9,H:13/13
Occultation ***
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West
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:03 pm
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@tsameti
Right, I get that, and I have done it (picking up the rock at the bakery).
However, this arose from retconning a roll, which led to a roll, which led to a roll.
See what I mean? And, were I to respond in a similar fashion, I would RetCon in Shifting Sands upon seeing Marius' suspicion, and erase all of that.
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Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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tsameti
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:04 pm
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| Quote: | | If you limit the speed of thread posts, what you will find is that players will naturally leave the scenes once a slower posting player enters. |
Unfortunately, that may very well end up being necessary to keep the game enjoyable for everyone.
Sometimes game continuity has to make allowances for real life. If I were to go on vacation, you better believe it'd be expedient for me to remove myself from faster moving threads.
The problem with getting caught in a fast thread is that it's much harder to leave it to actually participate somewhere at your own pace. A problem that a fast poster doesn't entirely have.
_________________
Ruby: Listen for that Hollow Sound, Supernal Vision
Grobbler: Ogre Bandersnatch, Autumn Mantle 2
Last edited by tsameti on Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Soul
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:41 pm
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| Quote: | | In that scenario, it's not a big deal. I just don't want to see you try to retroactively use a Discipline, claim one success, and move on, without me ever having a chance to throw my dice. That's my objection. |
I understand what you are saying and I will be more careful in the future.
But I also have to ask you to loosen up on this matter: West gave a blatant lie, which Marius could see through from any number of angles. i.e. your voice came on over the speaker system as the sound traveled from Dane's direction. A ventriloquist, no matter how talented could not achieve that.
On top of that is the fact, that him calling your lie has no real baring on the rest of the scene or the game for that matter, so it really is a formality. Like you said yourself: Marius has already enough reasons for suspicion. Why make a roll at all and not just let the player with 7 dice lie-detection, detect the 3 dice lie (excl. willpower)?
| Quote: | | I know its difficult for some, but maybe there should be some guidelines and a rating system for posting speeds for users. I know i personally like it when a thread moves quickly, and with some sort of rating system for the users, a user would know when they were getting involved in a thread that will probably move quickly. |
I have to disagree with this method. I prefer waiting for someone to write a single line and have everyone involved happy and satisfied with their characters actions, than having two or three players always on at the same time, running through the game.
If these three have their own thread, I have absolutely no problem with it, but if it involves other players then have the patience, and wait for that person to come on and post.
Otherwise players who can only post 3-4 times a week will just be pushed out of the game.
_________________
Mars Delven (Marius) - Pro 1, Coil of the Soul 1, Striking Looks **** [angelic, iridescent eyes (green/blue)]
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West
Mage Moderator
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:02 pm
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| Soul wrote: | | On top of that is the fact, that him calling your lie has no real baring on the rest of the scene or the game for that matter, so it really is a formality. |
Sure it has a bearing. West could get worried, cast Shifting Sands, and end up with a Paradox Manifestation.
| Soul wrote: | | Why make a roll at all and not just let the player with 7 dice lie-detection, detect the 3 dice lie (excl. willpower)? |
Well, because what happened could happen. You had your large die pool and I had my smaller one... and the smaller pool generated more successes.
I just wanted to mention those items because, mechanically, there could be repercussions.
That aside, you're right. We all got carried away and moved on without you. I apologize.
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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Soul
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:40 pm
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Apology accepted.
Now, water under the bridge. I'm glad you brought it up in this thread, and I will make it a point to be more careful with the dice. So my apologies as well
Now, let's see how things turn out in the club ^^ Looking forward to it
_________________
Mars Delven (Marius) - Pro 1, Coil of the Soul 1, Striking Looks **** [angelic, iridescent eyes (green/blue)]
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Nightroad
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:16 pm
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Here Here.
I argree totally
but....
Some of us do play a little faster then others. If we are in a different thread then others by ourselves or with someone of the same timezone. It is not really great to have to wait on other people in a different thread to finish to further our own storyline.
If you are with a group you should have to play with that group but if you are not I think there should be interesting stuff for you to do instead of waiting for other players to finish.
My opionon, take with much salt
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[Werewolf]
Taylor Roads, SL:2 Blue Eyes
Honor 3, Glory 1
[Mage]
Blackfire
*Jacket(Armor 3)
*Lighter(Fire)
*rapier +2 dur.
Active Spells
1. Wand (celestial fire -casting 7 -paradox 2)
2. Wand (celestial fire -casting 7 -paradox 2)
[Mortal]
Gregory Farland
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Frost
Master ST
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:27 pm
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Ok, this is a forums, and in order to interact we post.
Some of us do not have the capability to post all day long all the time. Some others are not even in this country and are 12 to 14 hours behind the rest of us.
If you are in a thread with one other person and you both are posting repidly, then by all means go for it,.
If you are in a thread with five other people and some of them are not able to post that fast, then you are going to have to wait.
This is the way PBP works.
_________________
"I might like you better if we slept together."
Sheriff Ishani Naetesh, Gabriel Marcus, Shadow, Lioni Dupree, Veritas, Bella Orchid, Valencia, Zen, Jamie Jones (JJ), Lisaundra Frost, Karma, Maxine Fairchild/Ankh, Lavender Rose, Detective Venessa Blas
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Kai
Mage ST
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:35 pm
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I have no problems with that decision.
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Kai: SS(*), MS(*), FS$( 8), SA$(20) ,SH$(17), M:12/15, W:8/9,H:13/13
Occultation ***
Last edited by Kai on Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sjones7060
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:02 pm
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Okay I wanted to give me two cents, I also wanted to try and stay away from the crossfire. I feel the need to just throw something out there.
I think alot of the displeasure stems from the recent Mage issues. I'll say its just on my end to keep it from seeming like a general statment. Obviously fixing that is a work in progress. We have a new ST for Mage settling in. Most all the players have gotten character(s) approved or retooled as needed such as myself. Most the Mage players "jumped ship" to the cross-over thing to be able to play on a more reliable basis. I think everyone has enjoyed it for the most part. I think most of us are rather steady posters also. Most the Mage players know each other from other venues outside the Twilight board.
Now we're kinda locked into a thread as the new ST comes into power. Cant just end the thread and hop back over like nothing happen nor do I think anyone wants that. This is mostly a issue for people that only have 1-2 characters active those far. Unlike those that may have 2+ per splat roaming the streets. People that have secondary, thirds, fourths, etc you get one stuck waiting on a slower poster you can cover time with other characters. Not everyone is at that point. You get a steady poster with ONE character its going to seem like hell when they have to dwiddle their thumbs and wait.
Sure I dont want Stone to come to a grinding halt. I understand the concept of a PbP game and waiting on people. I've been in the ST shoes for one. It can be frustating when you have 3+ steady posters and one slower one in the mix. It happens. You deal with it and move forward as you can.
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Ich
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Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:37 pm
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| Kai wrote: | | I have no problems with that decision. In the future I'll keep suggestions to myself as to avoid being berated. |
I just read through the whole thread and didn't see anyone getting berated. I've made several suggestions, some of them have been utilized and others have been discarded. But it's never been personal. It's the ST's show, so they make their own decisions based on their preferences, but don't expect them to coddle you. 
...or if I'm wrong and you were getting berated, suck it up! Suggestions, imo, should be made, even if they end up getting discarded. If you stifle yourself, that's on you.
Back on topic. For those faster posters, it's certainly not a bad statagy to get involved with other players with similar schedules, but as this is a community, that won't always be possible.
One solution is to make more characters. What's the limit, five? You can even use backgrounds to intertwine stories with the other faster posters to set the stage.
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West
Mage Moderator
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
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Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:55 pm
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| Soul wrote: | | Why make a roll at all and not just let the player with 7 dice lie-detection, detect the 3 dice lie (excl. willpower)? |
| Quote: | | 01-06 14:36:35 Marius rolls 12 dice to Mani+Emp+Maj Entrancement (used WP) Failure 5,5,5,5,1, 6,3,5,4,5, 1,1 |
That's why we roll the dice 
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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Dredloke
Requiem ST
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Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:55 pm
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Thats Salt in the wound West Salt in the wound
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sjones7060
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Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:31 pm
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Well West does get run over by the bus often enough I guess we can let it slide once.
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Dredloke
Requiem ST
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Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:33 pm
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thats only because LF drives like a blind woman....oh wait she is.....
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Soul
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Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:15 am
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| Quote: | | That's why we roll the dice |
Ass 
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Mars Delven (Marius) - Pro 1, Coil of the Soul 1, Striking Looks **** [angelic, iridescent eyes (green/blue)]
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West
Mage Moderator
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Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:01 am
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You asked. I answered
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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Lermanicus
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Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:08 am
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| West wrote: | | Soul wrote: | | Why make a roll at all and not just let the player with 7 dice lie-detection, detect the 3 dice lie (excl. willpower)? |
| Quote: | | 01-06 14:36:35 Marius rolls 12 dice to Mani+Emp+Maj Entrancement (used WP) Failure 5,5,5,5,1, 6,3,5,4,5, 1,1 |
That's why we roll the dice |
WoD P.32
Dice
Like most roleplaying games played around a table, Storytelling uses dice to determine the whims of chance.
It just adds flavor. Some of my best rp memories are of hidious failures...goodstuff indeed.
_________________
Nothing is random, we just don't understand the variables.
Lt. August Kordecki (Mortal)
John Dee (Awakened)
Nicodemus Panagopoulos (Ghoul)
Twinkee Joe (Forsaken) Glory 1 Honor 2 Purity 2 Wisdom 1
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