Cops and Robbers

[Victoria Stamford]

"I do not mind. Certainly," Victoria said pleasantly.

She listened to the other woman's questions and nodded in understanding. They were good ones that cut to the heart of the matter, the what is in it for me question, after all that is what it all boils down to in the end.

"There are some people who can excel by not joining an affiliation and you are more free of some attachments, but it does not make the political side any easier. You will always have to deal with politics among our kind and if you do not join someone then you will have no one to rely on but yourself. You may be able to form some ties with other like minded individuals, but there is no security, no backing if things go wrong when you are betrayed. There is more risk involved and you also limit your potential development. Many kindred will see a non-choice as a sign that you might not be mature in your development. After all if you can not find an ideology to support among the many varied ones available they may start to wonder if there is something wrong with you or if you just simply do not care enough. Not choosing is a choice in and of itself after all, it is not the absence of choice." The ventrue paused for a moment to let the issue settle in before she continued.

"As far as what you would receive, you would gain a support network and as long as you don't prove to be too much of a liability. You would have people more inclined to assist you. There are many roads to influence in the Invictus they can be martial ones as a soldier or a sworn member of a Knightly Order, you can master a skill, a craft, a set of powers of the blood, even the power of blood oaths. In the Invictus we recognized strength and skill so perform well and further our goals then you will advance. As a member you will gain a network of individuals that make certain things easier such as establishing a herd, business opportunities to further material wealth, gaining quality servants, finding a teacher for a specialized skill. Also like I said earlier there is always blood oaths if one is so inclined. You might even establish your own guild and teach firearm skills."

Victoria adjusted herself in the chair and leaned back against the back of the chair. She had to dump a lot of information and hoped that she wasn't overwhelming the woman.

"As for what I get? Well that largely depends on how you perform. If you perform well I look good to the rest of the Invictus and it raise my status a bit for finding an excellent member. If you perform poorly then you would make me look bad and there would be a small loss of face, well small for me, I believe the bulk would be on you. You can even be drummed out in disgrace. Thus the reason for the high cost in boon for my time involved and the risk. My job would be to train you and ensure that you know how to conduct yourself properly, procedures, proper use of titles, etc so that you do not embarrass either of us. I have done such things before and and currently a sponsor for Master Greenberg. A person who trains neonates or new members of the Invictus is called an Au Pair. So if I do well I might even be able to claim an additional title, however, my title of Reeve would take precedence at the moment."

[Alessandra]

She made some excellent points, a few Ale already knew, a few she didn’t. It would be stupid if a Kindred thought they could survive the Danse without politics. It was the same when they were breathing, politics were a necessary evil, and you either learned them, or you didn’t. She never thought not being Bound would be a sign of weakness, as hindering her own development.

“A lot of good points, a quite a few I never realized. I’ve personally stayed Unbound as long as I have because I didn’t want to owe anyone anything. My Sire and I spent many years on our own and I believe did well for ourselves. But now that I’ve decided to stay in one Domain, and want to flourish, I realize perhaps those ties are needed.” Plus her family was doing such a piss poor job at rising in the Domain, making a deal with devil might be called for. “Now you mention finding an ideology to support and a support network. Would the Invictus support or, let’s say allow, my pursuits of business and allies within the criminal aspect of the Domain?” it was a fair question. If they couldn’t help her, or allow her pursuit, then they weren’t for her.

And there it was, proper use of titles. She hated titles, though she understood their purpose, but still, “Train me in how to conduct myself and proper use of titles? I like to think I’ve conducted myself appropriately in Court and whatnot. Please be honest with me, have there been ways I haven't conducted myself well?" she was genuinely curious. "Now titles, I understand them from a practical use, to establish order and all that. Why are they so important to the Invictus? I like to get a clear understanding of things before I do them.” As far as loss of face, it wasn’t a concern for her. Others opinions didn’t mean shit to her, except maybe the Prince, his opinion was kinda important.

“When would you want an answer for sponsoring me? Is this something you would need to clear with the others? I don’t want to jump into such a big decision without thinking it through.”

[Victoria Stamford]

Victoria listed intently once more as Alessandra asked her questions. She liked that Alessandra seemed to have a clear understanding of the type of person she wanted to be and had goals in mind already. This was a very good sign as far as Victoria was concerned.

"Your pursuit in developing your criminal enterprises? Absolutely that would be highly encouraged. In fact I'd be rather disappointed with you if you didn't further develop your influence there. I would also imagine that was one reason that you drew drew attention to yourself already. We respect strength and excellence when we see it. You can rank in the Invictus as I said by the skills you can perform, you also gain importance through the level of influence you can bring to bear. Subtle use of power is a very valued and respected attribute to possess. We typically focus on key strategic figures in fields and control them and that kind of thing is more easily accomplished with our support. That doesn't mean that developing standing and authority in your own right or having allies that you can call on for aid is ignored We develop that frequently as well. However, I believe the Carthians focus more on the grass roots support of the masses and call in support from allies. But then you would have to deal with their childish rants, and their bungling up the masquerade. They frequently get too close to their kine friends and share too much. They tend to forget they are no longer human."

Victoria adjusted herself in her chair and looked to the savage across from her with a slight shrug before continuing.

"As far as titles? I think you do well enough as well, but they really aren't that unpleasant. We are far more lax about titles than those elitist and fastidious ego stroking dragons. Many of our titles that you get are either earned by age and accomplishing great things for the Invictus or they are earned because you have mastered a skill or a role and are recognized for it. It is more of a recognition of accomplishment. Also titles in the past have played important roles in noble and genteel culture. I suppose some of it is mirroring that, but it is an excellent counterpoint to the beast. You are more likely to see refinement in the way a gentleman carries himself over say a dockworker on a tavern crawl. However, even the lower classes have their own culture, hierarchy and modes of showing respect to say a gang boss, an under boss, a supervisor, the heir of an organization, a lieutenant, a comrade in arms. It is something that is comment to the human condition and all walks of life. The civility is what we latch onto. Not to say that those of your clan are not welcome or that those who have strength can not use it, we prefer to use strength for greatest effect. Violence is used in genteel culture as well, the kine's art of dueling lives in our Monomancy tradition to challenge one to single combat when we have been grievously wronged. There is a time and a place for bashing someone over the head, and there is a time and a place for embarrassing them before everyone and gelding them socially. The trick is knowing when to use those to make you look better. Controlled strength or power is what we respect, the beast can undo everything in a single evening. That is why we do as we do, insulation against losing control to the beast."

[Alessandra]

That was good to know, not many supported the pursuit of criminal enterprises.

“I must say, you make a very appealing case.” She admits with a smile. But it also puts her under the control of not only Victoria, but the Invictus. Could she be ok with that? “Being able to have others to call on would be very welcome.” Sure, she had her Cousins, but beyond that, she had nothing.

“I’ve heard of Kindred getting too close to Kine, I could never figure out why. They are simply a source to sustain us, and tools to get our tasks done. Simple as that.” How hard was that to get really? Hell, even when she was breathing, she had used people to get what she wanted and further her influence. But she kept that little part to herself.

“When I ran the family business in my breathing days, there certainly were titles we used to establish a hierarchy. So I certainly understand the importance of them, I had just heard mention of making sure I used titles in Court. It was inferred that it would be quite a mistake and there would be consequences for a slip up. I’ve never been someone to really make a huge deal out of em, so I was mainly curious as to how that situation would be handled.”
What she had to say about the Gangrels was curious, but there was also truth in her words. “My clan is often assumed to be violent and not, uhh, refined. And many of us are. But don’t get me wrong, I can hold my own should the situation call for it. Though since coming to the Domain I’ve learned that relying on things such as my guns isn’t always a possibility. Most of the time the problem is outside a club or some building and firing two fairly large and loud guns just seems unwise.” Which sucked, she loved her guns and had worked hard to train to use them.

“That said, I would more than likely need some training in the fine art of embarrassing someone socially.” She says with a light laugh. Could she actually fit in and be an Invictus?

“On a different note, and again, I’m sorry for the flood of questions. But why me? I know my allies have caused me to stand out to some extent.” Her hands rise slightly and are held out, “But I hardly ever considered myself someone who would be considered for the Invictus.” Referring to her tattoos, how forthright she could be and of course her past.

[Victoria Stamford]

"Indeed," Victoria began with a smile. "But, a wise master takes proper care to keep their tools well maintained and in good working order. However, if they break or refuse to function as intended then proper disposal or recycling," Victoria said with a grin, "should be considered. So I feel that we are mostly in agreement there."

There were a lot of ways that Victoria could proceed with things. She couldn't make the decision for the savage and she would need to come to her own conclusions if they would mean anything at all to her. However, the Gangrel was surprising in how uncertain she was of herself or self depreciating at times.

"When it comes to mistakes? Well they will happen. It is apart of learning. However, one excellent skill is knowing that if you are uncertain you can always ask the other person how they would like to be addressed. This is especially true for people with multiple titles. When you are learning there is a lot of leeway, within reason. After all walking up to the Prince and calling him a fucking tool would be...ill advised." The brunette finished with an amused grin. "Anyway, you can likely expect to be corrected a few times, but if you continue to make the same mistake time and again people will begin to wonder if you are too slow or rebellious."

Victoria thought for a moment before continuing.

"In my case, I am established enough to where any slip I make would be analyzed for meaning. Was it a message? A calculated insult? A sign of carelessness and thus weakness? When you are around long enough and get a good handle on it, expectations will shift. Now, I'm not saying that it is all candy and roses. If you are found to make a habit of messing up people can choose to take offense and in those cases a number of unpleasant things could happen. They could move their influence against you to make your unlife difficult or impossible. If the insult is great enough they might even demand satisfaction in Monomacy. Typically that is if correction has failed and the initiate refuses to respect a person of higher standing than them."

Victoria smiled once more as Alessandra mentioned her weapons and where she would need training.

"Couldn't we all?" Victoria agreed. "I tend to be rather blunt or strait forward at times and could do well to learn a little more subtly...shocking I know." She finished with a slight chuckle.

"Alessandra, I think you fail to see some of your strengths. From what I see you have a good head on your shoulders and could do well. I can see that you could do with a little more self confidence, but that will come with time. I think you might not have been in Sacramento long enough to grasp just how many imbeciles come through this city. Perhaps that was because I saw many of them when I was Seneschal. When you have someone intelligent enough to threaten another with physical violence in Elysium, or to openly admit to breaking the Prince's law while in Elysium you do not tend to have high expectations of new arrivals. Sometimes people just do not think. You do. You ask questions, are willing to learn, cautious, and appear to be discrete. All of which are valuable in this city. Also like you said many of your clan are more...colorful lets say, than you have shown yourself to be."

"Take your time deciding," Victoria said soothingly "I do not need an answer tonight, but I would appreciate a response yes or no prior to joining another covenant if you so choose. We will be working together so we can get to know one another better and that may aid in your decision."

[Alessandra]

Nodding, “Good to know it’s acceptable to ask. I certainly would rather ask than assume and end up regretting it.”

Slow she wasn’t, but rebellious? She had that in spades. “Time has taught me the places where being rebellious is acceptable. And it isn’t very often.” She chuckles. “Though it is unfortunate to see how rebellious some young Kindred can be. But I’m more apt to think they either had poor training or are just plain and simple stupid.” There was a shake of her head and a sigh, “And I hate stupid.” Kindred being stupid was a waste of her time.

The amused grin was returned, “Oh, I cannot imagine the train of thought that someone would have thinking that would be an ok way to refer to the Prince.” Though seeing the offending Kindred ashed would be funny.

Her eyebrows raise in interest, “Really? So if you were to mess up on another Invictus members titles they could assume it was on purpose? That it was an insult? Now that could make for some interesting conversations, and put another on edge.” And then there came that word, Monomacy. She’d heard it a few times from others, about Josephine and another. How awesome is that?! Of course that was kept to herself. But to demand a fight to the ash for insulting them?! She could def get behind that.

Smirking, “I happen to personal find those who are blunt refreshing. I hate it when people beat around the bush and expect you to figure out what they mean. I’d just rather tell someone how I feel or how’ve they’ve crossed me.” She had more colorful words she’d prefer to use, but she was trying to make a good impression. “But I do understand and respect the subtly of backhand compliments and the such. An art I would love to master.” But some people don’t get it and just needed to be told how it was.

It wasn’t that she lacked confidence, she had that. But it came to an Invictus, a Lady of the Invictus, thinking you might be Invitus material, you had to wonder why. She was a Savage through and through, but her breathing days had taught her a little of politics and how to behave. And it was good to know what Victoria thought her strengths were.

“Oh, of course. It would be rude to do otherwise. And I’d hate to start our working relationship off on that foot.” Very stupid move. “Grazie, I would like a couple nights to think things over and consider all you’ve presented to me.” She was pretty sure she knew what her answer would be, but it never hurt to think on it.

[Victoria Stamford]

"Oh, rebellious can be quite fun when one can get away with it," Victoria grinned conspiratorially, "but you are right it is rarely the best course of action."

Victoria sighed dejectedly.

"I fear that some of them are a product of the modern era. The little darlings think that the world owes them and revolves around them. They don't realize that other people actually exist and have opinions of their own nor do they realize the way the real world works until it is too late I'm afraid. It is what happens when they are coddled from cradle till grave and told how they are all special snowflakes."

Victoria grinned wickedly at the other woman's question.

"Oh indeed, many people confuse courtesy for politeness. It is not. One can be quite rude and insulting, but be very courteous about it. Backhanded compliments are one prime example of this. Of course one will want to ensure that you can get away with such an action or deal with what can follow."

"I agree, it is refreshing to be able to indulge in a blunt manner of speech on occasion." Victoria nodded in agreement toward Alessandra. "Excellent. I will give you time to decide and get back to me. In the mean time consider yourself a Deputy and I will notify the proper officials. I will be getting a state of the domain discussion and we can meet again to discuss security concerns. Do you have any further concerns or questions?"

[Alessandra]

Nodding solemnly, “Times have changed haven’t they. While my father fully intended for me to take over the business, I still had to prove myself to the men I would be in charge of. Not to mention earning their trust. The whole coddling thing is ridiculous, and I have to imagine it reflects poorly upon whomever trained the poor soul.” Which was why she never wanted to Sire anyone. Too much responsibility and too big of a chance of that Childe screwing something up for her. “It also seems the youth have never learned to be accountable for their actions. They expect someone else to take care of it and put the blame on others.” There was a tone of distaste in her voice.

Ale had a feeling they were going to get along very well.

Her head bows as Victoria confirms her appointment, “I’m looking forward to working for you and you won’t be disappointed.” She took pride in whatever job she was doing.

“No further questions, you’ve answered all the ones I had completely.” It was now on her to consider what was offered and make a decision.

[Victoria Stamford]

"They certainly have. Sometimes I fear that people insist that everything must change all in the name of progress, no matter how beneficial or crucial it is to the underpinnings of society. And all simply because they want to tick a box off some to do list to validate their own existence. Change should be calculated for maximum benefit, if it is needed at all, and not left to random whimsy."

Victoria uncrossed her legs and stood up slowly and deliberately. She looked down at the other woman with a smile. Victoria had pondered the notion of pressing for more, but didn't want to frighten the poor dear off with as edgy was she was earlier. She also didn't want her to think it was expected of her.

"I have rather enjoyed our little conversation Alessandra, however, I do not wish to keep you overlong. I am sure that I've subjected you to the prattlings of this stodgy, old woman long enough," Victoria said with a playful grin. "I hope that you have a pleasant evening."

I'm good to end here if you'd like. Great scene!

[Alessandra]

I'm good to wrap as well, great scene! Thank you!