The Wisdom in Offerings

[Chris Wooding]

'Well, if we call it Religious Powerhouse, I'm quite sure she would,' Chris chuckles, it should be clear that he's only teasing. Maybe they have a name already. Or they don't need a name? And why is he thinking about it anyway, it's not that important.

So after a short pause, a smile crosses the Shadow's face. 'I'm glad to hear it.' The fact that she can admit it already proves the decrease of arrogance.

Quite obviously he's about to say something, but then he changes his mind and interrupts himself while raising his index finger, 'Speaking of Vivian. Before I start asking all sorts of questions, maybe we should visit her with this good news? Then you can answer them together.'

[Josephine Sterling]

"If you wish," Josephine begin, "but we do have an opportunity for the moment to learn more about each other. Unless you're thinking that such learning might as well be done with Vivian's presence?"

That wouldn't be such a bad idea, actually. Vivian would make an excellent deterrent from true ire were Josephine to happen to say something accidentally offensive to the Crone Worshiper.

[Chris Wooding]

'Fair enough.' And Vivian already knows the basics from both of them, probably.

Although Viv and I don't always... talk a lot.

He shrugs then, 'It depends on what we wish to discuss. If we speak more about each other's faith, as you first proposed, Vivian might not be so interested. But ask me anything, or tell my anything.'

He leans back in his chair, finally allowing himself to relax. 'If we'll be coterie mates, I'm an open book.'

[Josephine Sterling]

"As shall I," the Ventrue promised, though it was no doubt clear to the Reeve's well honed intuitive skills that there was something else left unsaid. Nevertheless, Josephine continued speaking, and the nature of the qualifier was left unsaid.

"So, in the interest of that, I suppose that I shall share first. I am, as you no doubt know, a believer in the fourth major division of Abrahamic faith, the Lancea et Sanctum. However, I do not view that faith as most do. I don't say this to aggrandize myself, merely to express that I do not believe in what you might describe as an official doctrine. For instance, when I think of the divine being which I would call the Almighty...I don't believe that it is a being. That is to say, I do not believe that it is only one being, or three, or even anything as simple as a being that is everything, though I do believe that is true. Rather, I believe that it is something that is one, and three, and more, in addition to being everything. It is a being far more complicated, malleable, mobile, and encompassing than most ascribe it to be. Continuing with that idea, I do not believe that this Almighty is firmly gendered. It is not a Father figure, in my mind. Or, at least not anything as base as only being that.

"Indeed, if you look at the Hebrew bible as well as other ancient Hebraic texts you will see that the pronouns used to describe the Almighty transition between male and female. Similarly, the idea of shekhinah, the divine presence of the Almighty, it's settling in places of worship, is also often described as both male and female. Perhaps this because, as some believe, the Almighty has a female partner, one that is, in addition to being the personification of female divinity, also the personification of Wisdom. In Hebrew this being would be referred to as Khokhmah, though that name has been since translated to Sophia, as well as many others. In fact, the description I have given of the Jewish understanding of this being is rather simplified, but the fact remains that there is not just a male godhead which exists, but rather a female one as well.

"As for myself, I would reiterate what I said before, and say that it is not as simple as that. It is likely both, both two beings: God and Sophia, El and Khokhmah, in addition to being a Being which is both, in addition to being more, and also less. In short, I do not see the Divine as just one thing. Many among the Lancea et Sanctum, in addition to the Church of England, would call that Heresy, as might you, but that does not dissuade my faith. Thus, most often when I pray, I pray to Sophia, El, and the Almighty. As for the Son, well, he is included with the Almighty."

The Ventrue paused, expelling the rest of the air which had been necessary for speech and studied the Reeve for a moment before drawing another breath and asking, "Do you have any questions? Or would you rather speak of your faith?"

[Cayce]

Dark Passenger Chris Wooding

[Chris Wooding]

Sorry for being extra slow, I wanted to read this extra carefully

The first questions Chris would want to ask are: How old are you? How many languages do you speak? What fields of study have you followed in your life and unlife?

I suppose I should spend more time studying again.

'It makes more sense to believe in that "Almighty" than in a father figure. I've never understood that in any religion. The fact that something is godly in any way should mean that it cannot be defined by our mundane minds. If we had any true idea what it was, it would by definition be less godlike, yes?'

'Our basic faiths might not be so different. It is just that we have different practices and traditions. We make sense of the world by believing there is something. Seeing that as both male and female only gets my sympathy, Josephine. There's a reason that I use varying deities for specific aspects, parts of the everything. Calling that a Heresy would not matter, since the term is only valued or defined by something we don't believe in.'

'But I have another question,' he starts with a smile, 'do you follow the standard Western Lancea et Sanctum traditions in public? Then I mean the whole power structure with Bishops for example, and Mass practices.' Obviously, he wasn't there last time.

[Cayce]

No worries, just didn't want it to get forgotten

"First, I would like to say that I completely agree about the divine escaping definition. To define is to limit, after all, to confine within boundaries, and the divine is nothing if not unlimited and unconfinable. As for what I do in public..."

The Ventrue trailed off, a frown teasing at her lips as she considered her answer. To speak truth would be to confront what she didn't want to confront: her own short comings. At least, in part. Alas, a lie would do nothing, nothing that she wished to do, and thus all that she was left with was the truth.

"I both do and do not follow the predominant traditions. I have done away with the standard hierarchy, at least in name, instead demanding that all priests and priestesses be known as brother or sister, as our true parents are far beyond u, and we are just as flawed as any other, even if we do pledge our lives toward understanding divine wisdom. That said, I have not relinquished my position as leader of the Sanctified here in Sacramento. I still wish to be the guide, and so, in action, I have not departed from tradition.

"Furthermore, I have not spoken to anyone but you about my true beliefs. I...do not yet have the courage," she admitted, "or perhaps I should say the trust. The Sanctified have been too weak for too many years in this Domain, and I do not wish to drive anyone away, or to make any more enemies than I already have. I have faith that, some day, I can sweep the veil aside, but for now I must merely be a fisher of kindred. Or, at least that is what I tell myself. What would you say, Hierophant, as leader of your faith?"

Dark eyes fixed upon the Demon across from her, intent and keen.

[Chris Wooding]

'Exactly that was what I was wondering about.' He replies after Josephine explained her usage of Brothers and Sisters. In any other case, a Ventrue would definitely be Bishop as soon as there's no opposition.

Chris raises his eyebrows in surprise when it turns out he's the first one to hear this.

'I would say that for the biggest part, Kindred with a clear mind about these religious matters should share it. Partially because of the small numbers. If Kindred were so happy where they came from, they would have stayed there. When I arrived in Sacramento I was glad that there was a Hierophant who could give me guidance. I knew the basic Circle philosophies, but there's only insight to be gained when you know how to put the basics into practice.'

He shrugs then, straying from the maintstream path is always a risk. 'Former Deputy Edwin Bridges was a follower of the Second Descent, a faction within the Circle. I had only heard of the name, but now that I could talk with someone about it, my Faith became stronger than ever. Before I knew it others were willing to join, and by "coincidence" Seneschal Katya Harding arrived, already part of the faction.' The Mekhet does not entirely believe in coincidence, as he makes obvious. 'In some ways this faction is very different from the mainstream Circle of the Crone, if such a thing exists. So all I can say from my own experience, not following predominant traditions can turn out much better than expected. If anything, unaligned who don't agree with those traditions can be given new insights.'

[Josephine Sterling]

Josephine nodded slowly as she considered the Hierophants words, and the motion only ceased once her black lips parted again.

"I see the wisdom of your words, Hierophant, or a piece of it at least. Faith is, if nothing, an act of trust. That does not excuse idiocy, but to condone our own fears is to in some way deny our faith, and in my case it has been to deliberately halt the expression of it. So, when next I preach, I will speak of what I truly believe, and not cozen others into believing a facsimile of me or my faith. Besides, as you say, the alternative to speaking without fear is not proven to give any real benefit, if my covenants history in the city is to be observed."

She paused, clearly debating what she would speak next, but then brushed the doubt away.

"I understand that many pieces of Wisdom in your faith are referred to as Mysteries, and with good reason. But, if it is not asking beyond what should be asked, what is the belief of the Second Descent?"