Precept practice

[Chambers]

a gesture to indicate affirmation and inspiration both the sudden pointing up with a finger. "And have meaningless but artistic drawing unhelpfully intwined among the chart naturally." Should they be making light of the precepts like this, some sterner members of the mysterium would undoubtedly frown, but it was just the two of them and it was nice to laugh a little.

That Aurora had entered into an apprentice, mentor relationship was surprising but welcome. "A very good indication your taking things seriously, someone outside the city I have to assume?" Because well the city only had him and that ghost Aurora had found. "Is it the ghost?" Because actually that could be a possibility. But the nods. "Yes if we have, some of it would be far to dangerous to be allowed out." Largely knowledge of the abyss and other such horrors would qualify without question. "Knowledge is kept until someone is ready for it, much as there is plenty kept from you and I ranking as low in the order as we do." And that was as simple as rotes, secrets of magic, artifacts and other equally rare but generally known of topics.

Yes indeed exchanging knowledge for wealth or power was paramount to treason in the mysterium, good to hear that. "I was actually asking very loosely around the topics e.g. we would never exchange information of an abyssal nature, or we would never exchange knowledge of the mysteries to anyone outside the order." Two very different examples, kept secret for very different reasons. "Could you tell me why we would never exchange knowledge on those topics?" Aurora was smart and dedicated, but her entry into the mysterium had been mis handled rather dramatically so it never hurt to gauge what she was aware of here and there.

He nods, making sure exchanges were fair was part and parcel of a curators job. "That's a more polite way of handling then I have heard from some others." Which was no bad thing. "You don't need to offer alternatives if you think one of the parties involved is dealing unfairly. Many simply drop the deal then and there, a lesson if you will that nothing will be achieved by bad dealings." Not a requirement by any means but an effective enforcement against those who would try to manipulate an exchange.

Power itself can be enough to hold many in check or give them pause for thought, that Aurora didn't go around flexing what she could do was smart. But word of it had crept out here and there and people knew enough to be a little more respectful of the Shaman.

Ah another misunderstanding there then. "I see apologies I misunderstood and got myself a little confused on that point." Easily done and it had been resolved.

A shake of his head. "No Guanxi is for smaller more day to day things, significant favors should always be subject of an exchange. My teaching on the duel or you teaching me on the lex are good examples of guanxi, well known, established parts of society everyone is aware of but some just need a little help with." As for the other part. "I wouldn't just demand the highest rote a person has, it might be that high, or it could be to high if the have a grimoire from there mentor, master or teacher." No that was to vague. "Well if her highest rote was lets say a disciple proficiency rote then." The step below adept. "Would that seme like a balanced exchange?" Breaking the question down a little more.

[Aurora]

Agreement, “Of course.” Aurora was always one to add humor. While there were a time and place to be serious, she preferred humor.

Nodding, “Yes.” Then a shake of her head and a chuckle, “No, not the ghost, though that would be something wouldn’t? The ghost and I have set aside our differences enough and they have agreed to be my mentor.” Another chuckle, “I don’t see that happening, not with our last encounter.” But she supposes stranger things have happened.

“Oh, ok, I see. That’s a whole different thing indeed. Each Order is entitled to their secrets and keeping their secrets within their respected Order. I respect it, and I expect it to respected in return.” And that was that. “Why we would never exchange it? Each Order has been entrusted over the years with secrets that they protect, and the Mysterium is no different. We are tasked with protecting and preserving those topics. And while we do have the topics, they are topics only a few should know, and only should know if absolutely necessary.” Sounding quite resolute in her words.

“I believe one should start with being polite if possible. Sometimes it’s the best way, if polite doesn’t work, then it opens the door for other ways. Then no one can say you weren’t nice.” Been there.

“See, that’s why I wasn’t sure, and didn’t go with it. Had this nagging thought in the back of my head and I’m glad I listened to it.” Sometimes you had to listen to that instinct. “This is why I’m glad we’re having this talk, I can say what comes to mind, and you tell me what’s what wrong with it.” Then another question. Ok, time to focus on what the Protocol specified. “The problem with what is a balanced exchange is just that, what is a balanced exchange? Criteria. The thing that matters is how valuable the traders believe what is being offered is. The utility. Then we look at the rarity and raw power.” Taking a pause, “So on to the question. Protocol is vague on a few things, and it also doesn’t say how to apply balance between the three criteria.”

[Chambers]

unfortunately he cant see how to take the joke any further so the mirthful smile is the last contribution to this little indulgence the Moros is able to mange.

In there world where reality was a lie and all things were possible, stranger things had most certainly happened. "Well I wouldn't have been to shocked if you had managed it." The Shaman was certainly capable. "But some out side assistance in any form is a quite nice to hear about." The small confirmation that not all of reality was arrayed against them as i sometimes felt of late was actually quite nice. "Have you asked them if they know anything of the orders history in the city?" It was not likely a route that would lead to anything but if never asked then well, never known.

That was perhaps a little generic, but with Aurora not having passed the arche yet he could not blame her. "We keep it secret out of respect for the knowledge, some is to dangerous to be let loose." Things of the abyssal persuasion for example. "Other would become to diluted, to lost in the noise, exploited and warped i we allowed them out of our halls." To protect the knowledge itself. "We protect knowledge from those not ready or unworthy to learn it, for the sake of the knowledge itself." Otherwise it would get lost, corrupted and all the rest of it.

The old adage manners cost you nothing was nice in theory, but ultimately untrue. "And yet sometimes A firm and uncompromising refusal is required." Just because someone wanted a deal, it did not mean the mysterium was obliged to make an exchange. "But in those cases we are not meant to lie about what we know, or if only some knowledge can be exchanged we must not allow the recipient to think what they have received is the bee all and end all, to do so is equally disrespectful to the knowledge being exchanged." Now that was a challenge. "How would you go about a partial exchange like that without telling the recipient more then they are permitted to know but without disrespecting the knowledge over all?" Underneath the surface right exchange was quite the beast of protocol, and politics.

Teaching was considered important in the mysterium for very matters like this. "No one is expected to know things they have not been taught and practiced." And while Chambers would have been delighted to find Aurora a prodigy on these matters he is quite happy to impart what he knows of the orders precepts and traditions. "It took me years to even grasp what I have." Which was all in all not so very much. "But yes what is balanced exchange? in this case in particular?" It required practice no way around it. "So what would you suggest if you were to do the deal over again?" Time to see her apply the criteria and where her instinct guided her.

[Aurora]

Smirking, “You never know, I just might be able to manage that at some point. I can be quite charming when I need to be. Now, if that works on ghosts, well, that remains to be seen I suppose.” But she was guessing not. “I have not, I’ve focused more on my studies in regards to where I’m at right now and making sure I understand what I’ve learned. There is a lot of information to take in and understand.” And while the history of the Order within the city was important, it just wasn’t where her head was at currently.

Small nods as she listens, “I wasn’t aware that someone would think it appropriate to ask for such knowledge. That while we don’t lie about having it, we don’t give it out, for any price. Especially to someone outside the Order. I mean, I’m sure there are those who feel they are owed it, there are always Awakened like that.” And it was up to them, the Mysterium to keep the knowledge safe.

“I agree, completely. And it’s something I have no issues with. There was a time, years ago, when I just wanted to make friends with everyone. Do whatever I could to make everyone happy and all that bullshit. Well, that time is past.” She wasn’t that awakened anymore. It had gotten her no where but walked over. “This reminds me of when you told me about Witch and the laptop, and not lying to obtain what I need. Am I right in tying the two together?” she asks, making sure she understands. “And lying ties into the First Protocol, right?” now a difficult question, and she needed to think on this. “To lie is to disrespect the knowledge.” It was obvious this one was a bit difficult, she was taking her time with it, thinking her words over, “In that case, I would say I’ve heard of that knowledge before, but I don’t know the ins and outs of it, it’s beyond my scope of expertise.”

She didn’t want to admit this, but admitting it was what was going to help with learning. “Was it balanced? Taking things into consideration, then no. If I was to do the deal over again, and nothing was brought to the table in exchange, then I would refuse the deal.”

[Chambers]

There was no doubt that Aurora could command a room, be it with her looks, her confidence, her power or the respect hat came with the combination of all three, but as far as ghosts went. "Yes the left over echo's of the living can be a very mixed bag, the lack of awareness often doesn't help. Never mind the looped behaviors or stunted capacity." But surely it had to have some effect, although would that be a positive one? "I can both understand and respect that, I was simply curious about an out of city mage's perspective." It was an avenue they had not explored or even really considered.

Then Aurora had in some small ways been spared the cut and thrust of pentacle politics. "What order isn't trying to glean knowledge, secrets, power. Even in the pentacle we compete for scare resources, places of power, enchanted items of any, trying to claw an inch closer to some greater goal." Even possessing an genuine artifact was often enough to get you invited to, or requests accepted by senior mages just for a chance to see or study the artifact. Often as not knowledge of such possession also got you killed. "So while we might have to say are not going to engage in a exchange for something, other times we accept partial exchanges. Some of the knowledge for example it could be on an onery spirit, or ghost just for examples. But when we perform such partial exchanges it is important we do not lead the other party to think we have given all there is." While yes things of the abyss or secrets of the order, those remained locked away not for outsiders.

That is a position he can sympathizes with. "As much as I would love to run the Consilium as an extension of the mysterium, and do not doubt it factors into my decision making. I find myself in that near impossible position of trying to, if not make nice, balance all the ideology within the pentacle." Attempting to lead by example and reason over fear and force was a lot of work. "You certainly could tie those together yes. Please expand on that." It was another good example, if Aurora could follow through on the thinking it would be a sign of good progress. "Lying is false knowledge, that if we are not carful in this fallen world can ingrain itself into things until it becomes truth and replaces something magical." Which is what the free council just didn't grasp, technology wasn't magical it was killing magic. "That sounds pretty good yes. Or if it is within your scope something similar but equally not a lie." It was a tough job to keep all the rules traditions and precepts of the mysterium, tough in indeed.

He nods once. "More then fair. So ho about this, what would it take for you to accept the deal if you were to do it for someone else?" Learning happened mostly through mistakes, adapting and improving Aurora was making good strides today.

[Aurora]

“Think my best bet with the ghost in question is flattery. I’ve learned over the years to know your audience and to play what hand you have. And that ghost? Flattery is a good place to start. But not sure that’s a strategy I want to use on it yet, though it has been considered.” She wasn’t above it if it meant getting what she wanted. “Once things are at a place where I feel confident in my knowledge and my progression, I have no issues asking about the Orders history, it would be an interesting topic, one that could prove useful somewhere down the road.” You never know.

Sighing, “I suppose I just never thought to approach another Order and ask to know their secrets and what they hold back. Maybe it’s me being naive, but it just never seemed my place or even appropriate. Not my Order, not my business type thing. Always, you respect me, I’ll respect you. A character flaw? Maybe. Now against the Seers’ and enemies, well, they’re fair game and nothing is safe.” Was she wrong? Maybe, but it was the truth. “So partial knowledge is we acknowledge we know about it, but don’t know about it enough to offer any useful knowledge. I just want to make sure I completely understand it. So by giving the partial knowledge, do we, in a way, keep them on our side and maybe thinking they can try and come back for more later? Or that they have a chance to somehow obtain knowledge we don’t have?” these were important for her to know.

A nod, “I’ve always seen the Consilium as something that is run best as a mix of all five Orders, the good and the bad. I know it must be difficult, and I don’t envy you and the difficult task it must be. But I do think you are doing a remarkable job at it. Just know that each Order brings something that the Consilium as a whole need to run efficiently. Or so I’ve always believed." but she also knew that it didn't always work that way.

“I was worried you would want me to tie those two together.” Laughing, “The issue with tying the two together is the situation hasn’t played out, and I don’t have the facts. I don’t know what knowledge is on the table, aside from a laptop I would be attempting to obtain from her and what she would want in return. Saying this is all hypothetical, and Witch does have the laptop in question, I would need to approach it carefully. Not knowing what Order she is in, puts me at a disadvantage for one, and two, gives her the high ground. I would approach her with something simple and not overly complicated. Letting her know that I require the laptop for personal reasons, and that is all I can tell her on the matter. If she pushes back, I would offer Right of Exchange, but without offering any other knowledge on why I need the laptop, just that it is a personal matter that I need to take care of, but I am willing to compensate her for it.” Why over complicate it she didn’t have to?

A good question. “Considering the factors of the spell and what provides, so it’s only fair that I am offered in exchange a Rote of equal value. Well it doesn’t have to provide the same service of course, it will need to provide me with something of equal value or power.”

[Chambers]

In this regard despite his natural inclination and specialist knowledge on the subject, Aurora would in fact know best. "Given you've actually meet this ghost and got the feel for what works and what doesn't I'll trust your judgement on it." This is the difference between book knowledge and field experience right here. "Yes I do think that has the potential to be very interesting." Or a total bust but it didn't seem like it could put them much further back then they were already.

He shrugs a little the robes shifting. "It's rarely so simple; as just going up and asking, it's espionage, its intrigue, its subterfuge, its blackmail and soul stone thralls and all manner of things like that." There was no limit to the in fighting between the pentacle orders, some more then others of course, and location could also make an impact. "But we are all mages, we all seek knowledge, we all seek truth and four of the orders date back to the time of Atlantis, we have our scraps from the silver city, the other orders might to." And if they didn't well that made the mysteriums all the more valuable. "Partial knowledge is we readily admit that we are not conveying all we know, or have only given selected information. Lets see if we can find an example for this. Ask me a question I am likely to know a good deal about." The point of the day was after all to learn and to practice. "And it depends on the knowledge in question if they can exchange for more later. Generally it would take them showing a lot of respect to our precepts." Any knowledge they did exchange after all, would inevitably risk leaking out further then they wanted.

A slow nod. "I can certainly believe it of the diamond orders, Atlantis was after all a collaboration of those four." That left of course the effectively toddler of the pentacle. "Honestly I don't see what the free council brings, other then keeping them on side means we have to fight with them less." But the ideology was naive, harmful even. By his reckoning anyway. "But all the same I try to treat everyone in accordance with the rules I've established." By which he means the charter.

Now this was interesting. "I am informed on her Order, but I'm afraid that's off the table as far as exchanges go." That was Witch's secret to keep if she so wished, he had no place to spread it around. "As for the laptop well do you remember the divination?" That could be the clue to forming a good exchange here. "But there is noting wrong with approaching her asking if she is open to discussing an exchange, asking her what she would like for it, if she needs help with anything perhaps? And negotiating from there." If the Moros was inclined to negotiate at all of course.

This was maybe a little circular. "Yes a rote of equal value would ideal. But if she doesn't have that would you say then, two rotes of apprentice level proficiency would suffice?" A little of the old does two plus two equal four here.

[Aurora]

“Years ago, it would be my default tactic to use. But now? Now I want to go at it with other tools I’ve learned to use. Attempt using more intelligent tactics, beat it at its own game so to speak, but that doesn’t mean I won’t sprinkle a bit of flattery in here and there to keep the ghost interested and thinking it has the upper hand.” With flattery and the like, it was using it to get what you wanted, but not over using it. “If I overplay it with flattery, I could tip my hand.” And then all could be lost.

The blonde shrugs as well, “Again, I just never thought of obtaining that information.” Maybe she should. Ask a question, a lot harder than it sounds. Chambers knew quite a bit about a lot of things. But to narrow it down to fit the scope of the question, that was a bit tricky. So she decides to go with what they have been talking about, the Mysterium, “Can I expect my next Initiation to go the same as my previous with tests and knowledge?” not the best question, but, it was hard to really come up with something.

Shrugging, “They do seem to be the ones who raise the most questions when it comes to establishing order and keeping things running. It always seemed to come down to them when the Charter and Lex was brought up in the past, and it was nothing but a headache and an uphill battle. But they are here, and they need a voice.” They couldn’t be ignored, and should not be ignored.

Nodding, “It was never something I was going to bring up or ask about. If she wants to offer that information, she will. Would it make things easier? Yes. But I won’t push her about it, it’s her business.” And Aurora wasn’t one to push herself into others business. “Yes, I remember. And asking if she needs help with anything is a possibility. But she doesn’t really put herself out there in meetings, and when I’ve mentioned I’m always open to help if needed, there’s nothing. I suppose I could always call her, see what happens. I’ve been wanting to get to know her better anyways.” Which was true, laptop aside.

Frowning, “I mean, it could be a possibility, depending on what the rotes were and if they were useful rotes. But then again, I’m getting two and they’re getting one. We’re not talking Master level here, though again, the protocol is vague.” Looking torn, “I’m going to still say no. It’s two for one, someone is still getting the better end with two rotes for only one.”

[Chambers]

Each method was a tool in their box. "There is no shame in using flattery, intelligence, theft if needs must. Whatever brings the knowledge safely into our care, the Mysterium has members that specialize in a staggering array of skills to achieve that end. None are more or less valued, well not to me." Others would of course have natural favorites and predilections. But it all achieved the same goal.

Aurora catches him of guard there and it shows for a moment,but after some consideration it provides a good opportunity. "Aurora I can't say what your next initiation will involve, even though I do know, because you have yet to earn that knowledge by completing your divination." And before then there was till plenty of work to be done if they wanted to be able to conduct such initiations.

That sounded very on brand for the council of free assemblies, dismissive, destructive even of the very traditions that kept them safe, kept them alive and insisting since the fall of Atlantis. "Something rather good about the Councillor set up is that no one order inherently gets a privilege I guess, it does depend who holds the Councillor seats, and well I not doubt have bias in me." He was not perfect no one was. "But it provides a system for all order to speak to their Councillor who in turn advise me." And in that way every voice had its chance to be heard. If not acted on.

Witch's order aside, he had made it plain he was aware of it, but not willing to share. He did wonder if Aurora had noticed what he had done there. He had demonstrate a refusal of knowledge. "I have socialized with her a couple of times, I that's the route your going to try I would make the recommendation museums." He had run into the Moros there once and she had worn shirts from the various museums to the circle multiple times.

Now this was interesting. "I would agree someone is getting the better deal still, although it is closer but I would say the adept rote is still worth more myself." Almost every mage in existence had a smattering of novice and apprentice rotes but adept rotes now those were rather more rare. "However given in your case you did not actual exchange a rote, rather the benefits of the spell I would have said two apprentice rotes would have been pretty good as exchanges go." But he himself was still learning, still practicing these balances.