Making the time to listen and talk

[Chambers]

With Aurora taking steps on her own journey through the Mysterium trials, traditions and mysteries there Moros thoughts had turned to the remaining Neokoros inferior in the city. Revelations about the timeline and gaps and mis order in education had given him much to mull over until he had decided to reach out. What more was there to do then hear from the man himself. And so with the ideas of tradition in mind he had opted simple. grey robes under and over walking quietly in to octagonal first chamber of the Athenaeum a few on the lanterns are lit many more left dark with purpose and a seat is taken in one of the padded window bays to wait for the shamans arrival, a bleached white pipe unlit between his teeth protruding from his hood. And a polished wooden and brass box at his feet.


Guru Shane

[Guru]

Guru knew how he wanted the meeting to go, well preferably, but knew his mouth had a tendency to run away from him. He showed up in his usual psychedelic splash not wanting to leave the color behind for the formality. Besides if he went with something for his specialty it would be something like a dark brown robe and that was just not a color he wanted to walk around a robe in. He took his time as he watched some of the expansion that had been worked on. The thing he was honestly excited to work on? Security. It was almost like a game to him whether he was the cat or the mouse.


He'd seen the letter and got the message but his first inclination, in all things, was that something had went wrong. He came in, a little on the uneasy side and unable to hide it. His first reaction was a bit of surprise at the pipe which seemed to serve as the primary distraction for his attention especially at the material. "Is that bone?" The question came out unbidden as he couldn't hold back the flood gates as the workmanship had caught his eye. A smile and a laugh was offered though the uneasiness settled back into his bones. "Sorry about the other month, I don't deal with loss all that well. I'm really, really over losing people. Sorry, I know that's like complaining to a sailor about being away from home. It never gets easier, no matter how many times it happens." He offered Chambers with a frown as followed his initial assumption as to the nature of the meeting.

[Chambers]

The stark difference between grey and the vibrant patterns was both stark and amusing. A hand comes up to remove the unlit pipe. "Whale." Guru was the first to ask that question and it felt appropriate to encourage that eye for detail with a definitive answer.

His hood is pulled back and down now, more personal to converse. "I could wax poetic about death but unless you have walked the dread realm of Stygia that is all it will be words." He handled death better then most, many Moros did they knew it more intimately then any other path. "We can talk about the loss if you want to." But it was not the purpose of meeting today.

Gesturing to the alcove seat across from himself, there was no need for Guru to remain standing. "I have learned that the mage who brought you into the order left very soon after." The source of that information is pretty easy to assume. "If you willing I would like to talk of what you know of the Mysterium, try to fill in any important gaps and answer questions if I am able and permitted." The order had a hierarchy and responsibilities, Chambers might not sit very high in that but here in Sacramento the duty still feel to him to put these things to right. "Please keep in mind there is much I am can't say and don't know but it doesn't hurt to ask." Best to temper expectations.

[Guru]

His lips pursed into an O of wonder before he let out a soft whistle. "The texture looked familiar, I've a ring but it's not made from anything as impressive as whale." He took the time to admire the craftsmanship. He nodded his understanding about his own ignorance in this instance, "We are different sides of the same coin that will never face each other. You're right in that I don't think I'll ever share that unique perspective. Which is why I think your words hold a lot of weight on the matter. I fight so hard against death and I am still so helpless in the face of it. I keep losing the people I care about. I'm the king of self sufficiency but...." He took in a long deep sigh as he slid into the alcove seat across from Chambers. "I don't want to do this alone anymore." He reached up and wiped at each of his eyes as he blinked away the freshly forming tears before he took a couple deep, steadying breaths.


The topic shift wasn't that unrelated to his last statement. He cleared his throat and nodded taking a second before answering. "Yea, honestly, I really appreciate the both of your cool collectedness. I still wish he were here. What is, is." It came out sounding like a mantra and that's partially because it was. He had to accept the things that were and figure out how to move forward, that was life. He nodded and took another second to breathe holding his hand to his chest to breathe and then released it as his hands went back to fidgeting idly. "I know we tie our roots to pre-fall Atlantis. A lot of time and effort is devoted to finding and restoring knowledge lost and hidden from that time. As Knowledge Must be Preserved and it doesn't come for free. I think we all know the first bit there." He offered with a weak smile as he tried to make humour where he could find it. "I know of the things we stand for I have the hardest time with Tradition. It's not that I don't understand the purpose and place, I just, I can't help but question. I can always accept I am too ignorant to understand, I can rectify that given time."


A break and a pause as the dialogue continued, "I know I can't progress any further than where I am now without a Divination. I kinda feel like you should approve of that first though. What is, is. I need your approval here and i know I haven't set a lot of good examples sometimes." His mouth opened and he cut himself short and deflated with a shake of his head. "I know I need to do better, to be better..." his right hand kept balling in and out of a fist, reaching into his robes like he was looking for something before it came up to pinch the bridge of his nose. "I know I can be an asset to the order. I know I didn't come at any of this conventionally and it puts me in an awkward position. What I really want to know is what I can do for the Order? What is it we need? How can I progress forward down the path? What -is- my path? Sorry; told you, Questions...Imagine what it's like in here." He laughed and tapped at his temple a couple of times.

[Chambers]

And of course it was no stretch at all to figure why a Moros carried something made of bone on his person. "A ring of bone is no easy thing to come by not many still work the material." Of course he did recall Corn offering to help Guru with mastery of matter which suggested either interest or proficiency in the arcana.

Strong emotions are were not what he had expected today, but weeping and grieving were old things to him. Those who commission gravestones are rarely in a good mood to put it mildly. "What do you mean when you say you fight against death?" To even begin understanding the shamans thoughts that had been the stand out part. "Alone, is both the hand we have been dealt and the path we walk for the safety of those we love and ourselves to boot." A little harsh maybe but it was a lesson every mage either understood or learned the hard way. "It's not easy but with the dangers arrayed against us it is necessary." Said gently, not to berate but to remind Guru that it is for safety of their loved ones that alone it must be.

Okay a simple start but that was in many ways more comforting then the last person he had this talk with. "Yes Knowledge must be preserved and Knowledge always has a price. Can you tell me why that is?" The difference between repetition and understanding was to link the three tenants one of which was conspicuous by its absence. "And how those three statements led to the four protocols of the Mysterium?" A challenging test if Guru didn't know them.

The challenge with tradition had made itself apparent yes and been a considerable point of hesitation. He does not know yet, in a way its my job to get him there. "The order can seem stuffy and yes they much we all must accept we don't know and are not ready to know." A pause as words are carefully chosen. "It is my hope that in the not to distant future I will be bale to show why tradition is much more then words and rules in the Mysterium." That might have been saying to much honestly.

And then well the crux of the matter. "I did say I would work to advance my proficiency with time and I can say I have done so, I am now able to perform the necessary spells and am sufficiently respected within the order of the Mysterium to provide those divinations." If he would or not remains unsaid for the time being. "Of benefit to the order is a tricky one, and not for me to direct." Could he technically yes but Chambers himself was still low in the order and it felt wrong to be so heavy handed. Besides I need to know the Mysterium can function while I have the Consilium to manage. "A good place to start, tell me what you know of the Sophiad." If nothing else it might narrow the field a little.

[Guru]

The question had him pause, consider, "I know it's natural for things to end but...I've mostly seen violent ends." Corn was just the last in a long list too which his name is almost added as well. "Every life lost is potential lost, an opportunity lost. It's every moment that would have come after otherwise. For my fight? I take care of myself, I try and get people to do the same..." this is where he shared a look with the Moros and offered a smirk knowing their foraging adventure turned half into work out talks. "But with each potential comes the chance to mess it all up and we all deserve that chance. So, if I generally see someone in need, I'll help. I believe in continuity..." the smirk turned to a smile as he looked around the antechamber. "I don't go around abusing my power to upset the natural order, I just try to encourage better choices like yoga and a book."


The lesson left behind by Corn about what can happen when we intertangle with sleepers. Was a stark warning of what could happen if one wasn't careful and that the threat still lurked out there. It was harsh but it wasn't untrue, "My dealings with most are primarily transactional. It..." a deep and heavy sigh, "doesn't provide anything meaningful. But isn't that isolation also what brings us together?" Leave it to the Shaman to try and drag it back into the light. When the test began in proper his foot began to rabbit; thump, thump, thump repeatedly against the side of the alcove. The younger shaman unable to hide the tenseness and the nerves knowing it was all on him now. "Knowledge in the wrong hands is as deadly as any weapon." The statement came out ice cold as the spectre of his own past loomed long behind him. "It's not just about what you learn it's about how and when you learn it as well. Lessons are usually structured for a reason, you need to build a foundation. I had a mentor teach me all the right things for all the wrong reasons..." he looked down at his own hands. That made him notice the bobbing of his knee as his hands moved to restrain the offending appendage.


"Sorry, I, uh, fidget more when I'm nervous. It's not just about preserving it, it's about making sure it doesn't end up in the wrong hands. Before you ask why not just destroy it, well, you might need it. It might be connected to something we find later. Just because we, with our current understanding, are the dangers. Does not mean future generations will be. Does that make sense?" I ramble when I get nervous too, fuck I want a smoke. Deep breathe in through your nose, out, focus. Something you can see, smell. His thoughts started to slow along with his breathing. "I lived the example of why the first two are important and the dangers there in, which is why it's important that knowledge be earned in the first place. Whereas, the last point ties it all back to the first bring it full circle since the mentor/student relationship needs to be honored. That means we need to respect that the positions of our superiors have been earned."


"So...if it helps it's from a good place? I just want to make sure it's for good reasons and there's room for questions. We have to also remember it's the students place to question. We should all seek to be students, at least of life. We need to not just do the things as we've always done them but remember the why we've done them that why, that last bit, is equally important.. As lifelong students, we also need to accept the fact we might not be ready for those answers." He dipped his head at that to acknowledge the fact that he couldn't be told everything and he wasn't expecting it. The breathing seeming to have worked as he was placid for a change. The excitement of the news of the divination did a lot to direct his attention away from the slip of the tongue. He didn't miss that it wasn't on the table yet though and he swallowed down that lump in his throat.




"The Sophiad? I hate to live up to a stereotype here but I do walk the path of ecstatic revelations." He offered with a hearty laugh for a change a bright smile on his face. "Isn't that a little vague though? Are you speaking of which paths I walk, I usually find myself drawn to Thaumatology, at least in theory. Practice requires the right, safe circumstances. Safety first, always." Another mantra. "I haven't really branched out too deeply into the occult beyond my looking into old local legends. I've been thinking about looking into symbology though. I realize I'm probably missing a lot that's right under my face that way, you know?" It was a hurdle but unlike the one he had with languages he felt like this was a challenge not only worth tackling but one he could conquer. "I'm also working to brush up on my knowledge of spirits and the Shadow. It's something I've probably put off for too long honestly. Dealing with spirits is a lot of politics..." He offered with an uneasy grimace in a bit of self-deprecating humour. "I don't think I hid my mundane specialty, I might have learned it informally but I do know Chemistry and Botany fairly well."

[Chambers]

A tilt of the head. "Is it?" Here was something for the young mage to ponder on. "We know how death works under the lie, which tells us it isn't meant to work that way." The war for reality was about correcting what was wrong and that included how death functioned. "Potential lost yes both the good and the bad." The chance for both existed hand in hand. It was interesting he had never meet a shamans who so clearly displayed the differences between their paths as the two of them did the Moros muted expression and small gestures to Guru clearly expressed shifts and moods. "Subtle guidance is a wise thing to practice, especially if it can also serve as a mirror. That's something I know I'm guilty of." Guilty might not be the right word. "Giving advise I struggle to follow." Although on what he is less forthcoming.

A nod confirming the point. "Yes our isolation usually either drives us mad or pushes us to join Consilia and form cabals. It's not the same but it is something." But oddly not something he himself found to much struggle with. "I find my peace in knowing what I do as hard as it is, as insurmountable as it seems is for a reason." The end result might come long after his soul has departed and his body less then dust. "Like the architects of old I will not likely endure to see anything come of it but I know I have done my part to bring it to being." The story of planting trees comes to mind.

A gentle nod greets those words. "Yes knowledge is power and we must be careful about who we allow to have that power." The story of the fall, the existence of the seers sufficient to drive that point home. "And paying the price for knowledge is a show of respect for knowledge itself." Part of that being willing to wait for when as Guru said the time was right and you were ready. "Can you tell how you understand the protocol of right exchange?" that being the other key part. "Your anxious." He had seen that leg shake in many a student, he knew what it meant. "I won't tell you not to be that's pointless." and likely to make it worse. "Is there something I can do to ease your mind however?" This was a test and there would be a judgement at the end but that didn't mean it had to be unpleasant experience.

Guru continues and Chambers listens until the Sharman takes pause. "All knowledge even that which we don't like or would rather not be is part of the collective truth or a piece in the puzzle that leads to it." Yes good knowledge should not be destroyed which leads into perhaps the hardest lesson yet. "It is for that very reason the Mysterium teaches not to kill, the knowledge in the mind of the person is lost when we do." And the methods of retrieving were very rare. "Having the idea that we can just kill if we need to also stifles the creative element of solving the problem of how to get by without killing." Hoping that might take better then a simple instruction. "There is a large faction within the order who dedicated themselves to magical innovation, discovering applications of magic and artifacts that have been lost or not considered before and it is far more wonderous then just finding new ways to kill." No need to get into the ethics of it just yet. "The protocol of right apprenticeship defines the mentor and apprentice relationship quite nicely what do you know of that?" Both parties had roles, obligations and benefits thanks to the protocol.

Palms go out in an gesture of openness. "You can ask what you will Guru, I can't promise I will be able to answer but I won't judge you for asking." In fact it was better for questions to be asked. "Why we do things is very important on that I agree, I might even call it tradition." Yes the Moros just tired for a gentle jest, humour not being his strong suit beyond the occasional pun and even those had been very sparing of late, but the effort was made.

A gentle smile creases his face. "Why would you be sorry for that its nothing to be ashamed of. Another faction with in the order focuses very heavily on those revelations and from sublime secrets can be unravelled." He had a alot of time for the Egregori. "They make stride against the force of pancryptia that many would not." And for that they deserved respect. "I left the question open as the heart of the Sophiad is take the opportunities to learn as the present themselves." The gentle smile maintains. "It is what pushed be over the edge into persuading knowledge the Lex and the factotum exam, instead of leaving it for someone else to pick up." Had he wanted to at the time no, but he had struck to the orders traditions and now was very grateful he had. "I would have once said my field of Soriology was Thaumatology but my studies have taken me other direction for the last year or so." That didn't mean it wasn't his focus but his Sophiad had grown. "Likewise my field of Esotology is occultism with a focus on folk tales." It seems they had a good deal in common, no bad thing. "My main focus where the Exoterics are concerned fall into the fields of philosophy and ethics." As Guru had shared so Chambers exchanges knowledge of his own Sophiad in return. "I know little of spirits beyond the basics I am afraid but like any political structure I would advise start small." A thought occurs. "You might consider bonding a familiar they can be well springs of information and a good sign to other spirts that your trustworthy." The bond had to be willing after all. And having an ally that knows the terrain better never hurt. "It's also a very tangible goal in terms of gauging progress." And Guru felt like the kind of mage where clear goals would help.

[Guru]

Chambers first questions already had the Shaman stop and pause. "No, not really. I didn't believe it before I know what I know. Now, even less I suppose as I have a theory but..." he shook his head with a grimace held in his posture. "I think the soul is sacrosanct, I would trust very few to even look. To your point." Just the thought of it made him feel dirty. Maybe intrinsically it's because you know you're not yet worthy for that knowledge. "Potential is just potential. I understand that for every positive outcome I might experience it's likely to come with ten more negative ones. But we still take the chance, more often than not." He smiled and the conversation spurred on that itch to study another field. "Subtle? i always just kind of thought of it as hands off. It's a contradiction of sorts, as much as I fight for that potential I don't think it's my right to interfere in its trajectory more than necessary. I can poke, I can prod, but I can't force; At least, that's the way I've always tried to help others. Ultimately I'm not the one who has to live their life. I think we all struggle to follow our own advice. We're our own worst critics, aren't we?" He knew he always had been.


He mostly listened as Chambers spoke of Consilia, there weren't many people who could share a fraction of each of their perspectives and so they reached out. The young Shaman took those words to heart and looked up hand scratching awkwardly at his scalp. "I have a dream Chambers." He laughed a little because he felt it was silly and what was sillier is he'd never said it aloud before. "I want to protect us." He put emphasis on that and motioned around the room. "There aren't a lot of us and everyday it feels like that number is getting smaller and smaller. I've spent some time in the field and I know I always needed another tool for another job but it's not available. I want to build things to protect us, to stop unfortunate things from happening to us, to give us options. And then it goes from us, to the next, because hopefully what you build lasts." He nodded as he understood what Chambers had meant though he was having to calm down as he'd grown more passionate, and thus louder as he continued.


Guru shook his head after his leg had stopped and he worked to correct his breathing. He shook his head, "No - my normal reaction to this isn't the habit I need right now. I've, never tested well. Fuck, I hate working with an audience." He offered a small laugh and did another ten count before he straightened out his robe and his back. "Not just about power or rarity, it's also about the value to the receiver. The information exchange should always be honest and equivalent. I prefer to call it the equivalent exchange but that's my alchemical bias peeking through. It's not speculative, not all parties need be happy for an exchange to be equivalent."


He understood where this next moment arose from he couldn't deny it was the simple solution. It was the easy path which is why it often lead to the left handed path. His onus to protect and preserve life wasn't necessarily from the same core but the venn diagram could merge into a circle with time. "You're right. It's just an easy solution, not the most correct one. It's a short answer to a more complicated issue." Pushing the envelope of what was capable was always to his interest. "I've told Aurora some of my ideas on that front since they were mostly based around applications of her specialty. As far as Apprenticeship the apprentice needs to support the master anyway they can, and the master is to provide for the pupil in turn. It should be a self-reinforcing relationship ideally, the mentor waters the seed that is the student and as the student grows they are there to help the Masters interests." Now in practice, that's where things get messy.


The joke from the Moros got a laugh from the shaman and a bright smile, more importantly his posture seemed to relax and seemed to be less stiff as they continued speaking. "If I didn't ask questions I never would have found answers. I might not always like the answers I've found, more often than not it's turned out bittersweet". What followed his innocent joke about his Path had caught him a little by surprise. He narrowed his eyes with a smirk at the bit about being intentionally vague, "I was wondering if that had been the case. Isn't it as much about how one learns and acquires knowledge as well? I'd say in my case, slowly, but I prefer lecture. I listen better than I read, correction, I absorb the information more swiftly." As Chambers returned the exchange he gave his attention in full. The shift in journey and the Factotum exam occurring at that time. Though when he said his field of exoterics was philosophy and ethics that smile turned spread wide. "Really swinging above my weight class when I want to complain about Aquinas then." There was a deep laugh following that as the advice that follows was sound. "Actually is," he squinted his left eye in thought, "like step 3 of my plan. Step 1 Is Survey my backyard see if there's something suitable close to home. Otherwise I can think of a spirit that might be inclined to at least hear me out. First steps is to at least come back with actionable intel from my undercover work at the sewage treatment plant. See which of the shamans want to join me in a spiritual survey as we observe the nature of what lies within the shadow there. With that intel I can narrow down one, plus, helps to have someone at home. Kinda like that ghost." Chambers had been dead on the money as he could watch in real time given a clear objective how the Shaman started to clear a path to it.