Food, Drinks, and a chat

[Chambers]

He tents fingers under his chin thinking over each word. ''No I'm afraid I have to disagree.'' Maybe I didn't convey this properly. ''Those are entirely different scenarios.'' He takes the time to try and word his response properly. ''It is all about intention I think. Revealing personal secrets that could be used against you, with the intention of trusting your fellows to not abuse them because they have no reason to, but being prepared in case of bad faith actors is one thing. You are prepared for the worst but do not expect it. Your intention is not to do harm, but harm will come to those who try and do it you.'' Because mages are still only human some will try to exploit you. ''On the other if I hear of a veil breach it is expected of me to go and try and resolve that situation. Not telling me everything about a scenario where the intention is to get me to go there would be a lie of omission. Relevant information has been intentionally withheld.'' It's clear Chambers does see this as very different but is unsure if he has conveyed why successfully.

He grins as Philip begins to understand. ''Yes the names we scribe are incredibly potent aids.'' Step by step. ''Especially because we get to use those connections as if they were our own.'' So I can reach people I have never met just because someone else has. ''The connection is penalised if we don't know the actual name of the person, the final name belongs to a second time if we don't know the name of the person we target. But That is an obstacle that can be over come in a myriad of ways.'' Lets see if that makes the penny drop, how useful our magic really is.

A shake of his head. ''No the spells of the stone scribes are fate primarily, each one has the conjunctional component of death however. So if a Moros or an Acanthus focused solely on their superior arcana they could not do these spells.'' Most people think Space or time for sympathy, fate to of course. Few enough consider death goes alongside all.

A nod to the workshop. ''When cast on someone who dies. Or is dead. The spell becomes a lasting effect. To make sure the record of life is not lost we create stone tablets and cast onto those. They last a longer then paper.'' And over time build up great collections of names.

[Philip Crosen]

"I suppose that sounds reasonable. But my own example was not explicitly construed as malicious entrapment although it defintely can be. It was merely meant as a demonstration of the difficulty to isolate truth from the Lie. Anyway, all this of course raises the question: even if you take steps to defend yourself in case your goodwill gets abused, which I`d expect from any competent one of us anyway, I still don`t get why he revealed what he did, so I`m still going with cavalier."
He tried integrating Chambers` show into his answer, perhaps he`d see his reasoning then.
"You said yourself the names you scribe are potent aids. I`ve run into similar problems you describe with my own temporal sympathy I use from time to time."
He then continued, finishing his example and spanning the gap from their conversation about Corn to Chambers` show.
"But I`d expect you to hide your own book of sympathetic connections from me as a matter of course. You`re showing me all of this grand thing on goodwill, and because of our friendship. And I really appreciate that."
He gave him a nod of appreciation. He then quickly added:
I simply can`t find a similar reason from Corn though, who I only very recently met, even if we assume he`s also taking his own precautions."
He then paused, thinking.
"Well, I don`t have any insight into the Death arcanum I`m afraid, so can`t understand. Too bad, though. I can see that being a treasure trove worth more than all the gold in the world. Just out of curiosity, how long time after you cast your spell would be the latest someone could die, and for you to still permanently have the record you just made of me, of them? And on an unrelated question, did you guys will the concept of cemetaries, with names written on tombstones, into being yourselves?"
he asked, putting two and two together with stone, death, fate and scribing.

[Chambers]

He shrugs once more. ''Likewise I have no knowledge of his reasoning just speculation. But it lead to an interesting discussion so.'' A pause to drink. ''If the informant had knowledge of an abyssal entity they withheld it is without doubt malicious.'' I can't think of anything more so. ''If they did not know of it. It is not a lie of omission.'' This seemed fairly clear cut to him.

Has he realised how potent though. ''You no doubt have a much better understanding of time then I do.'' Obviously. ''Do you see what a happens if I have a final name, use that to create the final name of some they are intimately connected say a mother to a grandmother, then use the grandmother to scribe the name of the great grandmother.'' Before I ask he needs to understand. Chambers looks eyes searching for understanding of his lesson.

A tilt of the head as he considers. ''Maybe you have it there. Maybe Corn said all he did on goodwill. A desire to foster trust early on.'' I don't know his practices on Guanxi yet so it would be unfair to say definitively.

Gesturing to the book in front of Philip. ''The spell lasts as long as the duration I give it.'' Which if I use fate as you know now could be a very long time. ''But I cast that one to be potent but short lived it should expire within the hour give or take.'' So unless you have a heart condition I don't know about it is unlikely to become lasting. Shaking his head. ''No I don't think so. Popularised maybe, hidden among it's practitioners certainty.'' I do even today. ''But it does not originate with us.''

He takes a breath and holds before letting it loose. ''That is kind of you to say and know I would not show this to you with out a degree of trust and friendship. My legacy tends to work closely if not always with the Mysterium. But are far more open about teaching our practices to others, even none legacy members if they respect the ultimate goal.'' It was a juxtaposition he clearly struggles with. ''But for all of that I am showing you because I have a rather selfish favour to ask.'' Of course the mystagogue wants something in return.

[Philip Crosen]

"Certainly, certainly. This makes for some very fun theorycrafting. An adept of Mind could find out easily enough I`m sure. The rest of us are stuck with this crude guesswork. And agreed, but it could also just straight up be an oversight or an underestimation of its` powers. Consider that for a master, some things seem much easier than for others. Let`s just hope it`s goodwill, though. Because if it turns out to be some sort of trick, I will not reciprocate him on this, no offense."
Because I for one still feel constrained by the double-blinds that come with your info exchange protocol. Urgh! It`s a real headscratcher with them. he finished the thought in his mind, though of course he wouldn`t disrespect him by saying that out-loud or letting anything show.
Chamber seemed to go into a loop with his name which can be used to create another name and another name- thing.
"Now that seems almost power hungry."
he said, smirking at him.
"From what you said you could go on ad infinitum, like say go back 15 generations. Trying to prove the theory of human evolution, eh?"
he asked, slightly amused. Although he didn`t expect the Mystagogue to be interested in modern (sleeper) theories on their existence. No. It had to be connected to establishing sympathy with some sort of powerful artifacts or people from eras long gone. Perhaps only to gain even more knowledge and power, just for its` own sake, and then to hoard it in typical Mysterium fashion.
"And someone who lived 15 generations ago has sympathy with a huge number of people living today."
Chambers` talk of durations 101, and what he could only assume was an inference to conditional durations was clear enough. Philip had only asked to get free info, and to assure himself of Chambers` non-hostile intentions with his spell. After all, that was a mighty large power Chambers held over him for the spell`s duration, so he was apprehensive, but still gave him a nod of appreciation for this info.
"Oh, definitely. I respect what you do. And from what you said, it sounds amazing. Not just what you did, but just the fact of having such power at your fingertips to do with whatever you like. It truly is staggering. Would be useful to couple that knowledge with the time Arcanum."
After all, Philip also knew he had substantial knowledge of time and could go back quite far himself. Though he didn`t know if he could go back that far, using the recursive loop Chambers described. Probably not that far, yet. he thought. Philip was surprised however, when Chambers rejected Philip`s suggestion that his legacy was responsible for the creation of cemetaries. This lead to Philip giving him a curious, surprised look.
"Really? So who or what do you think it originated from, then?"
He was tempted to say Atlantis. But to him that was more an ultimate, reality bundling metaphysical ideal rather than a place. And it just didn`t feel right to him to suggest that as the origin of the concept.
Meanwhile, his mentioning of a favor was not something he`d expected. He`d told him the views of many in the Free Council on Legacies, and more details about his own than he`d have liked. But still, he kept his mouth shut as he was curious. After all, he was his friend and if it was easily grantedm he`d consider it. Could it have something to do with combining his legacy with my knowledge of time? he mused, trying to figure out Chambers` request. He was in a generous mood just this once, after all and so he kept an open mind, but he was not opening to joining his legacy, if that was it.
"Oh, a favor? The gloves really do come off fast with you guys."
he said, giving him a brief glance and smirk, before continuing.
"And just what do you need? You will remember I did after all agree to help with the investigation into the break-in in the Mysterium section. I`m happy to help as long as it isn`t too dangerous. So, what is it?"

[Chambers]

True, very true. ''But would you want them to? bear in mind Corn is a first degree master if the mage using mind can peer his thoughts its very likely they can peer yours and mine as well.'' And for all this talk of information wanting to be free, everyone has secrets they would prefer not be known. Even Corn. He concedes that point. ''True enough. And a fair point to consider however if the information came from a mystagogue not factoring in who you are telling would be considered very poor form.'' Right knowledge requiring considering who should know what. If your sending someone after a veil breach telling them of the abyssal entity they will face seems important. But I could be wrong on that. It is quite apparent the enchanter has him thinking. ''None taken.'' We encourage others to follow but place no demand, beyond meeting the set exchange if you want something from our stores.

An eye brow raises. ''Does it now?'' A shake of the head. ''Such sympathy would be so weak if it even existed that it would be beyond any stone scribe I know to use it.'' The connection would strain even great masters. ''Which is why the hop scotch is needed.'' First one, then the next. Bricks in the road. ''Fifteen generations is so much smaller then our ambition.'' His eyes light up. ''If we keep going back, far enough. Trace enough family lines eventually one of us will scribe the name of an Atlantean mage.'' He lets that sink in the. The first step of the great work. ''Who in turn will have sympathy with others.'' And from there. ''Who would be the most powerful and learned mages to have ever been. If anyone can tell teach us how to win. Beat the lie and put the abyss back wherever it came from. To lift the curse of sleeping. To reconnect fallen and supernal. They can.'' Chambers usually falls into the reserved or mirthful categories but now he is stone still yet eyes and tone burn with an almost feverish passion. Very out of character for him. ''Do you see now Philip?'' We pursue the noblest of causes.

The light and fevor leaves him, locked back away, behind the gentler smile and softer movements those who know him would better associated with his manner. ''It is a lot of power and couples very well with space and time. If you are interested I am willing to explore these avenues with you.'' I am not blind to the other benefits of my craft. ''Knowledge to be gained. Things to be found.'' The same offer he had planned to make as they mended their relationship, that Philip had snubbed at the time. I was being premature, to eager to rush a fix that needed more time.

He shrugs gently. ''I do not know for certain. Marking burial sites is an ancient custom.'' And found in cultures disconnected around the world.

He returns the smirk, if his is more reserved it becomes apparent why. ''We live dangerously do we not. The threat of our end from sources unseen hangs on every action we take.'' Our enemies are many and unknown to us. ''I had arrangements for what would happen to my work if I die.'' Something I had not considered until then. ''But they seem to have fallen through.'' I hope she just had to move again and nothing happened. ''The work of my legacy has never been completed to fruition. Clearly.'' Because the lie still held. ''What I ask of you is this. Now knowing its end goal, if I die will you safeguard my work until a suitable inheritor can be found?'' He would not force the task of finishing his legacies work onto Philip that would not be right or mage or the task. ''And I do not mean share it with the world mind you.'' I'm asking him to go against something he believes in. ''But stop it just being another collection lost to time.'' He waits for the answer.

[Philip Crosen]

"Oh, definitely. Wouldn`t want anyone peering into my thoughts. I`m just saying it can be frustrating doing this guesswork. I meant that as an example, not an endorsement. But I suppose this guesswork has its` charms also, and makes for good conversation. As for form? If you say doing some sort of trick was a possibility, then it`s an equal possibility he acted in poor form, just as much as if it was just an oversight."
he stressed. After all, Chambers raised a fair point about the invasiveness of the Mind Arcanum. But Philip knew he`d had just meant that as an example and not an actual invitation for someone to go and dissect the mind of Corn. That was going way too far, even for Philip. But it was then that Chambers revealed a side he`d never seen before and possibly never would again. A manic side, a feral side, which briefly caught Philip off-guard by the sheer determination he put behind his words and facial expression. It was clear, this was his Awakened life`s dream and reason for being.
"Interesting. Would still be interesting to know how far you can push this. After all, the Lie hasn`t been defeated, leaving only two conclusions: either it doesn`t work, or hasn`t worked yet, so let`s hope the latter is the case. But as an outsider I`d suggest a more conservative target than the greatest Atlantean mages. You`re a Mystagogue after all, so you must have access to plenty of records describing the masteries of mages of bygone eras if you ask around, buoyed by the world-shattering importance of your mission. With that in mind, I`d suggest researching 3rd or 4th-degree masters that have `only` been dead a few centuries, rather than going all the way back to Atlantis. Or, `only` first-degree masters of Time, and fellow Soul Scribes maybe only a century or so hence. And from them, learning names even further back and so forth. Because from an outsider`s view, and forgive me, but you seem very focused on the grand prize. And what makes you so sure Atlantean mages can even give you the knowledge you seek, assuming you can find one? It could be possible your approach has already been tried before by someone who succeeded, after all?"
The answer of burial sites gets a shrug. It was an academic discussion about death and doom and gloom he wasn`t very happy he`d inadvertently started. I`d have expected more from a Stone Scribe on that subject though, but oh well.
Finally, Chambers gets to his request, one of incredible responsibility, but also of power, going back into his deadpan for the most serious of discussions, eyeing him piercingly as he did so.
"Just what arrangement did you make and what happened to them? And how shall I know if this inheritor is worthy?"
He couldn`t understand how careless Chambers could be to take chances on the preservation of his legacy and mission and he understood the level of trust Chambers put on him by even considering him for having him act as custodian of his life`s work in the case of his untimely demise. Chambers was an idealist, that was becoming clearer by the minute, but also a tempered realist, if only to some extent.
"And no offense, while I can certainly see the nobility of your mission, I`m not going to delve into the Death Arcanum to protect something that isn`t my responsibility. That said, I also don`t know if I can even hold or take on such a responsibility, with the power of names and such. However, I will certainly consider it, as well as helping you, considering what you`re asking and the amount of trust and vulnerability you`ve placed yourself under just by telling me this. Seeing your life`s work go to waste would just be foolish of me, though I won`t promise you the moon."

[Chambers]

He nods. ''Oh it is a possibility. There are mystagogues as I'm sure there are libertines that don't adhere as strictly to the codes and protocols as others.'' Organising a large international group of strong willed mages meant there would be so degree of variation. ''It is as I have said goals to strive for.'' And for actions to be reprimanded when crossed to far over.

Sitting back. He has the right of it doesn't he. ''Considering the scale of the forces that oppose us I am more inclined to think it has yet to occur.'' That was a personal belief of course. ''But what I can say for sure is all of the mages that have awakened post the fall, have failed to turn the tide of our situation.'' Something I am acutely aware of. ''They might be very learned and capable of teaching a great deal. It even be that I need to be mentored by the ghosts of such to overcome yet unseen hurdles.'' But they are not the answer. ''But to overcome the abyss itself our best hope is the hail Mary that the masters of Atlantis have some knowledge of situation that has not survived to reach us.'' And thus not a priority to my order. ''They might not, but they are the most likely candidates.'' Which is why they are the hardest to reach.

He sighs. Yeah I should have seen that coming. ''In truth. October and I became friends rather quickly.'' At least I thought so. ''She sat where you do now and the two of us arranged to cover for each other in the event of sudden demise.'' Which I hope has not come to pass. ''Currently I do not know her situation, and can only hope she is well.'' Funny right I have so much sympathy at my disposal yet for those I want to find I cannot. ''So I seek a new safeguard. Even if it only means my collection is put under lock and key out of sight for decades so it cannot be misused.'' Leaving a collection of sympathy maps for anyone to stumble on is a very bad idea. ''Ideally another stone scribe.'' But we are rare. ''But anyone with an interest in reaching Atlantis providing they can scribe the names and have the desire to overcome the lie.'' The criteria was actually quite simple.

Ah slight misunderstanding. ''I am not asking you to take up my mantle.'' Gentle smile. ''There is no need to learn anything you have no wish to. Only to put it somewhere it can do no harm. And if the opportunity presents itself pass it into the right hands.'' Better that then being lost to the bottom of the river of claimed by my family and sent to sleepers.

[Philip Crosen]

Chambers` point about unruly libertines and mystagogues was met with a silent nod. I mean, I told him during our previous one-on-one discussion we have those too. And besides, the Free Council does seem to share in common with the Mysterium, that we`re both dedicated to our respective ideals, albeit in a very different way.
"I`ll be honest with you. Your main selling point of your legacy and the job you`d like to entrust me with is the fear of all the sympathetic connections you have being weaponized. That is something I also agree cannot be allowed to happen, otherwise your buried treasure will most likely turn into one massive arcane rosetta stone in centuries to come, as you say. While you know the Free Council`s belief that information wants to be free, we`re not fools who hands out sympathetic connections of ourselves to Seers, and such a cache might as well have a bull`s eye painted on it. And while I`ll definitely have to give it some thought, and my answer will likely end up being `no` to joining your Legacy, at least you don`t strike me as someone who`d manipulate me to do so even if I joined. But I`ll help you keep the info safe, if you tell me how you want me to do that when it`s time."
And he meant it. Information must be spread. But still there was still the danger of weaponizing it, and what Chambers was doing was simply an all-you-can-eat buffet for sympathetic connections, with the possibility for a devastating blow to be struck to the Pentacle if the Seers ever got wind. Granted, Chambers took precautions, but still, it was dangerous. But there was also the part of him that wanted the knowledge just for the power it gave him. After all, he was greedy for knowledge, power and money in all its` forms. And Chambers had just explained where he got much of his power from.
"As for October, well done you. I mean, I tried recruiting her to the Free Council but it seems you got to her first and recruited her to your legacy? Too bad she left so soon."
he asked, curious. But with some genuine regret he never got the chance to hang out with her really, except at the antiques fair, before she left.
Chambers` hail mary statement revealed some of his inner hubris, to Philip. An idealism that was causing him to overreach in his ambitions. And that was quite a deadly weakness of Chambers he`d inadvertently discovered.
"But I`ve gotta say, that`s a mighty big hail mary, as you put it. You could always try to get smaller changes done with lesser past mages. They might yield some insights into fighting the Lie. Who says the key to defeating the Lie is `just` one of those spells you did on me, and a past mage`s equivalent record? After all, it doesn`t have to be sudden change, it can also be gradual. You`re approaching this like, I`ll spend my life searching for the name-and-sign that`ll save the world, and once I find it, the world is saved. Even if,just for the sake of argument, it does exist, it might be a lever you can only push in tiny increments throughout the ages, to eventually see gradual improvement. With that in mind, I really think you should give my idea of looking for lesser mages, who might also be able to help you uncover sympathy to other, earlier but only marginally greater mages in turn."
Hopefully Chambers got his metaphor.
"I do have a few questions though. First off, why aren`t you not discussing this with your fellow Mystagogues Corn and Aurora? And second, how shall I know if the person you want me to give your info to is worthy of it? "

[Chambers]

He nods appreciatively. That is exactly what I want. ''There is no pressure to join my or any other legacy. I am glad you see the danger of such things falling into the wrong hands.'' If even a libertine thinks this is to much to be publicly available may I underestimate the danger myself. ''If word reaches you of my death all I ask is the collection be placed somewhere secure. How is up to you, better even I don't know.'' The talk of mind magic still fresh. As Philip has the bottle Chambers reaches for it, clearly wishing to refill his glass as the cup is empty.

A smirk. ''No I did not manage that.'' Rather I see now how she pulled my strings. ''The conversation was engaging varied and insightful ... and somehow he found ourselves committing to an none sanctified death pact in the event of each others demise.'' That conversation had really gone places. But she was so easy to talk with the words just kind of flowed.

His brow furrows in thought as to how to explain why this approach had been tried and never worked. ''Firstly unless you decide to take up the task I am not asking you to look for anything.'' He did want this to seem a larger commitment then it was. ''I on the other must do so.'' He points to the sketch pad. ''If you pass that other I'll show you why your suggestion has proven impractical.'' It was the natural assumption that mage to mage would be shorter and easier route back ... but it had its own problems.

Seems that got lost in the conversation. ''The criteria are quite simple. Ideally another stone scribe. But anyone with an interest in reaching Atlantis providing they can scribe the names and have the desire to overcome the lie.'' Again to be clear. ''I have no objection if the collection gets locked away for seven generations until someone suitable is found to use it.'' By which time it would be a mighty head start for them. ''As long as someone is safeguarding it from seers, banishers and all the rest that would abuse or destroy it.''

That is a good question. ''Simply put I know you better. And this is a matter of legacy, not order.'' To whom would you trust the work of your soul, a friend or a stranger?

[Philip Crosen]

"I suppose I can do that, if I`m around."
Despite outwardly agreeing with Chambers to help him, there was one thing he hadn`t told the Moros. That, while advertising sympathetic connections to Seers wasn`t the Free Council`s way, advertising them, as well as the entire sum of Chambers` findings as soon as he had them, to other Pentacle mages was perfectly acceptable. And that was despite the risk of Seer infiltrators in the Pentacle. He didn`t feel the need to mention this to Chambers. Although he knew that if Chambers didn`t understand this, him not admitting this was a lie of omission from his part, he also didn`t have any qualms against lying. He recalled clearly having told him as much in no uncertain terms with his examples, last time they spoke alone in the Circle.
"And there is one thing, since you speak of oaths. I have the power to alter or break oaths at will with my understanding of Fate. It`s a great power but also a great curse, to have this level of understanding, as I`m sure you know from your own knowledge of Fate, to be as `fickle` as some might call us Arcadians. So I want there to be no misunderstanding, metaphysical promises have no meaning for me because of this. Perhaps October had this knowledge too, or she knew someone that did, hence why it seems she backed out. I`m not saying I would, and I did agree to help you after all and I`ll continue to do so as long as it`s convenient for me, which may be forever."
He let that last sentence hang in the air, he didn`t feel the need to state the fact Chambers wouldn`t get him to swear oaths on anything.
"And while I understand the temporal scope of your mission, I find the fact that I even need to help you in the first place to be reckless on your part, producing and recording for posterity as many sympathetic connections as you do."
he told him sternly. He wanted there to be no misunderstanding, better to play with open cards than be accused of duplicity later, not that he cared that much about duplicity, but still. Make friends by destroying them as your enemies.
A quiet, relieved but internal and almost imperceptible Ah. at his admittance that not only did he not manage to recruit her, she also apparently played him like a fiddle. Something the Acanthus found quite funny, giving him a slight chuckle when he said it. But he could appreciate more what he meant by choosing to entrust someone he knew with this task. So he nodded solemnly when Chambers acknowledged their friendship as the reason. Chambers` attempt at an explanation for why Philip`s idea of more incremental steps had proven impractical, as he put it, got a curious look. But he handed him what he asked.
"Oh? How so? I mean, there must be other approaches you`ve missed. There`s been tons of mages in the past, after all. Are you sure you`ve contacted all of them that could be helpful, even if they`re weaker? Truth can sometimes be found in the unlikeliest of places."