Mysterium meeting VII faces old and new

[Chambers]

Chambers nods. ''So two of us are opposed to the idea of councillors, two of us are opposed to the idea to a hierarch and two of us are opposed to the use of cabal titles.'' No point dying on this hill remember the fourth protocol be flexible. ''So for the time being it seems we the best idea we have is a temporary position a stand in, to be reviewed what as needed? every six months? once a year?'' Looking to Corn for elaborations as he put the suggestion forward.

A warmer smile. ''I am optimistic from experience. Winter is a wise mage who often provides a much needed grounding reason to proceeding. And Philip.'' Pause. How much do I share. ''Philip and I were at serious odds. It was getting nasty.'' It could have gone very poorly. ''But we acted like sane adults sat down and talked it out. It was hard, difficult even.'' It required a measure of trust that neither of us fully believed the other had at the time. ''But we did it and moving forward our relationship has become far more supportive of each other.'' Just to be clear. ''I expound on this only to reassure you that no one currently in attendance is beyond reason.'' We've grown in ways I did not expect. ''But Aurora you are correct.'' No two ways about it. ''The longer this is left the harder it will be to resolve if more voices are added.'' To many cooks and all that. ''Might I offer a suggestion, a clause if you will.'' The beginnings of a charter essentially. ''That should a path have three or more members recognised within the Consilium then they must move to appoint a councillor between them?'' A fail safe if you will. ''What are you thoughts on that?'' Because ultimately that's all this is, an exchange of ideas and attempts to find common ground and workable solutions.

He shakes his head to Corn still speaking gently. ''I'm afraid I disagree here. We hold all mages to the Lex acknowledged or not. We only hold members of the Consilium to the charter.'' Consili across the world manage it we should be able to. ''But I see no way of penning one without a hierarch to settle disputes of fine print.'' In short it comes later.

That was something to grab onto perhaps. ''That Corn is a very good point.'' Looking between the others. ''Working on our personal abilities is very important and here we have perhaps an unusual opportunity.'' And it might help us do even more then magic. ''The inferior arcana for Stygians is spirt, a ruling arcana for those who awakened to the primal wilds.'' And. ''Likewise for Thyrsus death is the inferior arcana, the subtle ruling arcana for Moros.'' He leaves it unsaid wanting them to finish joining the dots, to feel hopefully more invested in the idea.

[Corn]

Philip and Chambers were at odds? It didn't show in the previous sanctuary. Corn thought with interest. "Well, if you and Philip were at odds and moved over it to the civil interaction and even agreement we saw in the previous sanctuary, then I am becoming more optimistic - but not too much; you and Philip are two mages. I was as I am now, Aurora is as you see now and yet, we got drawn to shouting matches and as Aurora said, there have been threats issued and people were suggesting Duel Arcane. It could have been just Puck's toxicity that poisoned everyone but I doubt it lied just with him.
On the other hand, you and Philip are two people - out of five or six. We will see. It is also the burnout from all those endless and angry discussions, Chambers.
Aurora , I see what you mean about it being harder to implement a Charter in the future with more mages but I would counter with this: If the five of us pass a Charter and then the population grows to 12 mages, then we bind them to a set of rules just five people came up with and once those rules are in place, it would be difficult for the newcomers to change. "

When Chambers mentioned the rule of three Corn nodded. "I think that this was the go-to rule in the past. Paths had their own way to determine leadership and challenges to it. However, I would amend that rule - tell me if you agree both of you please, I am just thinking of ideas. The Path councilor would lose his seat if the population dropped to 2. There have been occasions, several in fact, where the path councilor was the last man or woman standing and that gives the path an unfair edge. "

[Aurora]

A shrug, “It’s not ideal, but maybe it’s what we need right now, something not ideal. A band aide if you will.” Was coming back the best choice? She was starting to second guess her decision. Sure, everything had been in shambles before she left, but she figured it would have been sorted.

Laughing, “And I’m jaded from years of experience. But being optimistic isn’t a bad thing, sometimes it’s what needed to move forward.” Would it help? Time would tell one way or another. “People not getting along isn’t something new, there will always be personalities that just don’t mesh well. The adults and wises ones are the ones who can move past it for the better of the community as a whole.” Was that throwing herself under the bus? Maybe, but she had no regrets about it. Some grudges could never be sated. “The key phrase is no one currently in attendance. But I, personally, have no issues with anyone currently in attendance. I’m always willing to hear someone out.” And when that goes south, then, well, nothing else can be done.

“I will always believe Paths should have Councilors among them, someone who can lead them and work out disagreements as needed. Which is all Path related.” She wouldn’t understand the opposition to Councilors. “I see the idea as something that needs to be discussed with the community as a whole, and that it should be left up to the Paths to decide.” She wasn’t about to tell an Acanthus how to operate within their Path. Just like she had no place to tell the Arrows how to do things.

“I can always try and recreate the one we had if you want to simply look at it. After all, I helped pen it, well, the reworked one. This isn’t to put it into place mind you, it’s simply being offered as a bit of history and a chance to see what we had.”

An eyebrow was raised, “An unusual opportunity?” what was he getting at? “And I would hardly call Death an inferior arcana, it’s just there are some who don’t put in the time and effort. As an Apprentice, I can tell you it’s quite fascinating.” But she liked the difference between Life and Death…and also…the subtle similarities.

To Corn, “You can say it, it was me who threw out the threat. But it was one I stood by and would have been happy to deliver on.” She was not ashamed of it.

“Corn, that is how Charters have been written before we were even Awakened. They are created by the Wise and passed down through generations of Awakened in cities like ours. When I arrived, many years ago, there was a Charter in place that I had no hand in, but I respected it. How is it difficult to adapt to Laws that already exist? When you arrive in a new city, do you find it hard to adjust to how they do things?” like, seriously. “Please explain it to me.” As someone who had been in many cities, she Charter was there and it was to be respected and followed.

Then a shake of her head, “No. I will not tell a Path or how to govern itself. Nor will I support such a thing. Just like I won’t tell an Order how to run itself. If a Path has members move on, so be it. Why do we get to then tell them how to do things? What gives us that right?”

[Chambers]

It gets a considered silence before he contributes again. "I was once given the example of how a drop of sewage can contaminate a gallon or more of water.’’ One bad faith actor or rotten apple can do far more harm than you would expect. "Given we have disagreed today over points and no one has blown up or threatened a duel.’’ He does not look to Aurora at the admission. "Is to me a good sign.’’ Sometimes a duel is needed to settle disputes that is its purpose. It seems he is not one to judge proper use of awakened tradition.

He nods. "I agree with Aurora. That is how charters work. If they don’t like it they move on.’’ That simple really. "That being said with unusual nature of the Consilium we could recommend reviews every six months to a year? Ensuring it remains relevant and serving the needs of the community.’’ And on that note. "It is also common within charters to do exactly that dictate how the structure of a Consilium is set up, how the positions are filled when it comes to councillors and a hierarch, so on.’’ A pause. "I would be very grateful if you would Aurora I am very curious to see how appointments were handled previously.’’ If only for some inspiration.

Speaking openly to the room. "The rule of three I think is good as it cuts down on to many voices, less than that and people can voice their own opinions without it getting overly crowded. However.’’ Because it seemed rather unfair. "A councillor has no power to keep mages in the city if they get called away. I do not think the title should be removed once appointed for that reason. If they met whatever other criteria had been decided by the path mates at the time of appointment then I agree Aurora it is not our place to strip that away.’’ A hopeful middle ground.

"An edge? I don’t see it a councillor is a councillor regardless of how many they represent. I only see a need for them to have the confidence of those they represent at the time of appointment. If they lose that someone will challenge them.’’ That’s how it should go anyway. ’’Just because say there are more Moros in the city it would not give our councillor more weight if that councillor was in poor standing, that would be on us to correct.’’ How, well that’s a different conversation.

He frowns a little again. Perhaps I was unclear a lot of ideas are flying, which is good. "I refer to death as an inferior arcana for you as in the commonly used term for the arcana a path cannot progress as far in without being mentored. Death is …’’ He pauses. "I am mistaken. I apologise.’’ I Often think of these two paths as two sides of a coin, that is not always true. "Death is not the inferior arcana of the primal wilds is it.’’ See not the right man for the job. "I got carried away with an idea.’’ He stops dead. Fool think harder before you open your mouth, now is not the time for careless slip ups like that.

[Corn]

Corn turns to Aurora surprised "You did!? No, I wasn't aware of that. I was talking about Kaze suggesting I have a duel arcane with Puck and then months later Winter threatening me to Duel Arcane unless I changed my vote. Who did you challenge and why? I would pay money to see that... "

Corn wasn't there when that challenge was made.

Aurora asks him to explain his view on Charters, so he does. "Charters have been written that way but not by 5 mages. By cabals coming together and writing a charter. By 15-20 mages figuring out the steps for the slow trickle of newcomers. As for the second part of the question, I follow the rules but in some hard-collar consilia - like in San Fransisco - rules and customs were quite stifling. I followed them out of respect of how they do things there, but that doesn't mean I think that was the best route. It's just the way it was. Here we don't have a charter. That's the way things are here.
Furthermore, we are at the time just 5 mages. A charter and councilors is using big city words in a small village.
For the third part of your question, what gives us the right: The fact that councilors don't just adjucate their path, but make decisions for all of us. Including trials. I do not refer specifically to Phoenyx's trial, although remember that in that case the sole acanthus was also a councilor, but to any trial. What gives a mage of a path of one the same power as a mage leading a path of three or four mages? " His tone is not confrontational, he simply states where he disagrees at.
"That is my opinion, but if the order thinks otherwise, I will follow the decision, guys. " he says simply.
Then Chambers suggests the revolutionary idea of re-examining the charter or the councilor rules (which are part of the charter) every once a while. Corn nods. "I like that idea but I am not sure it would be easily accepted. Aurora, what do you think about that? It is a good compromise, I think. But 6 months is too quick; that's every other official consilium meeting. I would say after one year and then every two or three years. "

[Aurora]

A nod, “Exactly, if you don’t like the laws and rules a Consilium holds itself to, then you leave, plain and simple.” No room for argument there. “Reviews of what exactly? If you are referring to a Charter, there is no need for one without a Hierarch and everything that goes with it. And Sacramento has proven its desire to buck tradition and set its own rules. Which is what we are seeing now. Charters only really need to be reviewed when there is a problem within the community itself.” Another nod, “I’ll set to getting it written out for you. But I warn you, there wasn’t anything special or out of the ordinary about appointments.” Was pretty normal in her opinion.

Sounded like Chambers understood how it worked, and she appreciated hearing it.

Shaking her head, “Nothing to apologize for, and I think I understood what you were getting at, I just personally, didn’t see it as inferior. Now Mind?” chuckling, “That is absolutely inferior and a bitch to grasp.” Which sucked, because she remembered it being a lot of fun. “Again, no worries. But if I missed what you were trying to get at, then I’m sorry.” If he wanted to go somewhere else with it, it went over her head.

“Of course I did. And I’ll give you two guesses who I challenged.” She would do it again in a heartbeat.

“Sooo,” drawing it out, “you want to forgo tradition because it makes your life easier?” she asks. “Charters have been written by less then five mages, so lets be clear on that. And no one is asking to write a whole new Charter. So since there is some weird ass confusion, the way it was rewritten in the past was with the Hierarch, and the five Path Councilors, who, in turn, went back to their Paths to show them what was be suggested. No one expects another Awakened to agree completely with a Charter, but if you reside in a city, you respect it or leave.” Then a pause, “No, we don’t currently have a Charter, it is not the way things are done around here. Currently being the key term. No one has said to bring back the Charter, I simply offered to let Chambers read what it had once stated, so if things change in the future, everyone can be on the same page. Personally, I would like it brought back, because I value tradition and having direction, but I will also accept what is decided as a whole. A Charter and Councilor are not big city words, they are part of who and what we are, every city has them, any gathering of Awakened have them. What you are saying, is that we’re an ignorant village who don’t understand how our own governing history is written.” Was he always this way? “Also, Charters have been rewritten at times when it has been needed. Which has been done here.” Maybe she should have stayed with the Ladder. Or just fucking gone without an Order, or a city to call home.

“Councilors only have a voice if there is a Charter and Hierarch in place. If none are in place, they are simply the leader of their Path, placed there by a vote of their peers. They then speak for their Path as a whole, and if that Path takes issue with what is being said, it’s worked out among the Path. When a Path is reduced to one, it is not our place to make that ones voice have any less meaning. We cannot control when others who share our path come to the city or leave. What gives them their, as you say, power, is that the Path of their peers saw them as being the wisest among them. And I, for one, am not about to question it. If you had an issue with your own Councilor, that is for you to address with them, and challenge them if you feel they are not leading your Path in the correct manner. I’ve done it, I challenged my own Councilor because he could not see past his own nose and ignorance to lead my Path with kindness and thought. Should a Path of one grow once again to become a larger Path, then it is up to that Path to decide if the current Councilor remains, or if there needs to be a change. The same way it has been done for years.” Why the sudden confusion.

[Chambers]

Well who agrees with who is flipping around as fast as the conversation changes. And he liked that it meant the conversation was more honest and bias less likely to be at play. He smiles a little just enjoying the discussion between reasonable adults going back and forth on these matters.

''You make a fair point Aurora. A charter only needs to be reviewed if found to be having adverse effects on the community rather the enabling it.'' He did not disagree at all. ''Which is why I suggested regular reviews of one, to ensure that it is performing its function.'' However. ''But yes talking about it has made me realise that might be a task that would take up a lot of time and effort of very little result unless the need was at hand.'' This is why discussion was important, it helped weed out the flaws in ideas if ego did not get in the way. ''Still reading it might prove insightful.'' Its more the prescient I'm hoping for. He sits back for a moment. A charter lays out how to appoint councillors and a hierarch, we need a hierarch to install a charter. That's a nasty catch. Still Something has to come first.

Speaking of. ''Thank you for your grace.'' She had no need to forgive his blunder, it was something a political mage could wield like a hammer if they wanted to it. It was a fundamental mistake. Fortunately she seems well versed in politics but not political. ''You understood what I was going for perfectly and your correction is appreciated.'' He for one is not to proud to admit when he was unquestionably wrong.

As Aurora addresses Corns points he holds back for a moment listening. Nodding slowly as she finishes more or less in agreement with everything she said. ''I to would like to see a charter restored to the Consilium.'' It had ben a very distant goal not that long ago. But now, maybe. ''I want to stress that idea of direction, motivation, of shared binding principles.'' He leaves unvoiced that he would not be surprised if it turned out the collapse of tradition had lead to the state they now found themselves in. ''Such things have been done by few as one mage, so five should be no problem as long as everyone can accept that none of us are likely to be completely happy with anything put forward. To balance five paths and five orders takes immense skill and consideration.'' And is usually left to the ladder. ''Politics might not be our orders speciality but we are often seen as advisors, the go to for knowledge and wisdom.'' As much because we have so much more at our disposal usually. ''This should not be beyond our skills.'' It will be long and difficult though. ''Very well said Aurora. Because yes it is our history.'' No one said its easy but it has been managed many times.

He nods again and truly has little to contribute. ''Aurora has the right of it.'' Path business is path business. ''Someone does not lose wisdom or skill just because their path mates have needed to leave.'' And besides. ''Hence the rule of three I think. It means the councillors wisdom has been recognised and helps reduce the chance of incompetency.'' Pause. ''Or a bad faith actor just showing up and claiming the spot with no support.'' Something to be careful for.

[Corn]

Aurora 's explanation that she is not suggesting a charter draws an "ohhh, I misunderstood, I thought you were agreeing with Chambers " from Corn.
"I am not saying we are an ignorant village that doesn't understand the history of our people. What I am saying is that we're just five mages so having enough councilors is not even feasible at this point."

He turns his attention to Chambers "As for a Charter, I understand Aurora's preference to return to normalcy, which I think that's what she meant when she said she would prefer a charter to be in place, but we have not even a single Silver Ladder in Sacramento at the time. The mages that have written Charters in the past, had the benefit of the Silver Ladder to put its knowledge on laws, charter and the Lex. We do not; this city has three academics, one policeman and whatever Philip is. We have no lawyers or magistrates. We are ill-equipped to write a charter. The previous charter was not working out so it was abandoned, so while it would be useful to review it, it would not be beneficial to bring it back.

Regardless, if you both agree on 'the rule of three' for councilors and then they keep their position unless challenged, I will support that decision. It has merit, I am not saying it does not.
Are we in agreement on that, at least? That we would suggest the 'rule of three' as an order to the Consilium?"

[Aurora]

“Again, I’m not opposed to it. But I also don’t believe Sacramento is in a place to support one being put in.” too few mages to support it.

Nodding, “That is what some have issue with, understanding and accepting that no one will get everything they want. We will each have to sacrifice something to come together as a whole. It needs to represent Sacramento as a whole, not as an individual Path or Order.” And some would be unwilling to move.

“I’ve learned over the years that those seeking to damage or cause harm work themselves out. The mask they wear will crack.” It just sometimes took time.

Back to Corn, “I agree that a Charter is in the best interest of Sacramentos Awakened community in the future. But that’s once we can get the basics figured out and have enough trust in one another to sit at a table to write one. Sacramento is not at that point.” And who knows how long it will take.

Another sigh, this one a bit quieter, “You do not need a Silver Ladder present to write and put one in place. We are not ignorant to what the Lex is and what the Charter has been in the past. It can be built on, it’s not as difficult as you may think. We are most certainly not ill-equipped to write one.” A bit more passion in that statement. “I was a Ladder, for many years, hell, I was even a Factotum when I was with the Ladders, with a specialty in the Lex Magica. Hell, I’m technically still a Factotum because one does not need to be a Ladder to hold the position. You want a fancy lawyer, here she is.” Her tone flat, “But it is not needed.” Emphasis on NOT. “Ladders are just better educated on the ins and outs, but when you boil it down, anyone who wants to be knowledgeable on those topics can be. It is not something only the Ladder can do.” A more careful look to Corn, “Are you just afraid of the work that goes into a Charter? Do you not feel like you understand the Lex and the ins and outs? Because there is no shame in that, not a lot do.” It was just something you had to dedicate time to studying.

“It was not working because there were those in the city that were working against it and the order it brought to the chaos. Some people just like to watch the world fucking burn and will buck against any and all structure. Charters have worked for longer than any of us have been Awakened and even alive. What we lacked was the backbone to defend and enforce it.”

[Chambers]

True we might be a ways off supporting such a thing but that's why discussing it earlier over later is useful. We are already taking steps. ''I'm not suggesting we rattle out a charter in the next two hours. But having the discussion, seeding the idea cannot hurt.'' All things worth doing take disproportionate time and effort, yet that does not deter the determined.

He just fails to contain a small good natured chuckle Aurora had earned it and more of his respect with that rebuttal. We might not need them, but it seems we have them none the less, isn't that auspicious. ''The ladder do tend to be the most educated on this yes. But the joys of being an academic as you say Corn. Is we can research things we ourselves.'' Meaning now himself and Corn. ''Currently lack. Although my grasp of our politics is not non-existent either.'' However. ''But certainly pales to your expertise Aurora.'' It seems Corn did not know all of her achievements.

His posture actually relaxes a little, he had not been tense but focused on the task at hand certainly. So we know who we would support if we go with a central figure. We have a model for councillor election that none of us seem to object to. All in all not a bad start. ''I am in favour of the rule of three model yes.'' Giving Corn the answer the the question posed. And hopefully some certainty.

He can't help but admire the Sharman's passion. ''That is a very important consideration.'' Let us never forget. ''Just because we bring something forth that does not render it immune from the lie, the force of pancryptia.'' Reviews might be worthwhile after all, but that's for another time. ''Dedication and relentless diligence is needed to uphold order and waylay decline.'' Laughing and cook outs yes, but stern resolve when needed to. All are tools in fostering the community cohesion needed.