Mysterium meeting VII faces old and new

[Aurora]

A glance to Chambers, “Maybe it’s because he is dead set on it being a member of the Mysterium.” She says bluntly, “Not that I don’t think you’re capable, I just wouldn’t throw my vote behind you as I barely know you and what you can do.” Facts were facts.

Nodding, “Exactly. But I think we should also take into consideration that it’s been done like that for years, and not just in Sacramento. When you boil down what it is, it is simply giving someone the acknowledgement to prove themselves to the Circle as a whole. Even with one central figure, some will get through the cracks and prove to be a mistake. I’m just saying that there are pros and cons to each. There really isn’t any true power behind a Councilor to the Circle as a whole, just within their own Path.” But it seemed like they were determined they needed a central figure.

“While you may be hesitant, if it does indeed connect to the building as a whole, you may find yourself with an other Order upset we were beneath their wing without a heads up. I think you both are a bit too wary of the others and their Orders. A heads up would simply be a formality, one done to not cause any strife. Wouldn’t you want to know there was someone poking around under the Mysterium wing?” why did she feel like the only one who saw the other Awakened and Orders as people and not enemies?

Now what Corn says get an eyebrow raise. “So despite what you previously said about him, now you’re singing his praise?” did she miss something? “We are also getting ahead of ourselves, we don’t even know if Winter would want the position, and with the push-back to have Path Councilors handle Acknowledgments, I doubt anyone would agree to it.” Most of them seemed against Path Councilors, yet these two think we need a Hierarch, cart before horse.

“If Chambers doesn’t think he could hold a challenge to the position, then what makes you believe he has the power to back a bid for it. While Hierarch is about more then just power, it’s a big part of it. And you’ve been trying to find reasons to promote for far too long.” It was annoying to say the least. “Again, I do not think you will find support for a Hierarch at this point in time. Everyone seems content to flounder around and cannot figure out the most basic of things. Bring it up in the meeting, but it’s going to get shot down.” She knew it, and if they were honest with themselves, they knew it. "Maybe instead of a Hierarch, we focus on either Councilors to Acknowledge, or someone to handle it if the Path is not represented. Seeking Hierarch before those basics seems pointless."

Sighing, "And didn't we gather to talk Order business?"

[Chambers]

Having leaned back to just listen for a few moments after being caught so off guard, he ponders all he hears contemplating the words he would use to respond. A small smile. ''I take no offence from anyone not casting their lot behind me, I am not the right man for the job.'' A gentle look to Aurora. ''Discussing how best to guide the Consilium is order business, it's not the fun adventurous side but order business none the less.'' Put a ladder on the seat with a mystagogue to advise them I was once told. Shame we have no ladders.

''The three of us make up half of the acknowledged mages in the city, if we can come to consequences between us, guiding the others becomes more feasible.'' Hierophants we might not be but we will have to make do. ''Without a charter or written law nothing stops someone from challenging via the duel arcane so power must be a consideration.'' The lack of rules essentially means we live in the wild west when it comes to organising anything.

''The reason I choose Winter is because I think it solves the issue of leadership and direction in one go.'' If he will take it. ''And if anyone can give a group of strong willed solitaires direction I think it's him, he commands respect in ways none of us can mange.'' Mages don't organise themselves it takes a strong hand, or very clever manipulation.

A small gesture of entwined fingers to Aurora states she has a point. ''True I would not want other mages under our wing without my knowledge.'' So we compromise. ''We tell them we intend to explore under our wing. If we find it connects then we inform them of our discovery.'' No need to tell what we find if we don't connect, sharing out of goodwill if we find it us.

He has already voiced why he thinks councillors does not work in their current state and has no need to elaborate. ''What other business would you like to bring to our attention aurora?'' Giving her space to talk and a keen ear.

[Corn]

Corn nods as Aurora very efficiently explains why he was so quick to jump from Aurora to Chambers .
"That. I want a Mystagogue on the wheel. And it seems I won't get my wish.
As for why I am singing Winter's praise... I am still hesitant for the reasons I explained but I certainly agree that Winter has all the qualities you two describe and he does have my trust. To put it simply, Aurora, you convinced me that Winter being Guardian of the Veil is by no means something bad because of other things in other cities with different people involved. I have seen nothing bad from Winter and I have seen several good qualities from Winter.
And, again sorry Chambers, you also convinced me that just because Chambers happens to be a Mystagogue that I know for a few weeks is ... not exactly solid reason to promote to leadership. Again, so far I like you and I respect you Chambers, but I don't know you. And yes, thanks to your input, both of you, I realize that promoting Chambers based solely on order affiliation and being against Winter based solely on order affiliation is naive and dangerous.
Aside of 'you are a Mystagogue' and 'you seem a nice guy', I have little other to give as an answer to your question of 'why do you think I should be Hierarch', Chambers.
Long story short, it was wrong to consider only order affiliation and I shouldn't have done that.

That said... if not Winter, I think we are better as we are now, honestly, without a Hierarch. So before I get in Winter's shit list as I did with Aurora's by pushing him for a position he may not want, can you check if he would be interested in such a post Aurora? You know him for ... a decade? Longer? He will probably tell you. "

On the matter of the Labyrinth, he nods in agreement with Chamber's. "I think civility if needed is better. I would not be happy, not happy at all if an other order snooped under the Athenaum. That is true. But it is not as if the area under the Athenaum is considered Mysterium territory. I.e. I would not be able to complain much about it. I would at least consider it civil to shoot a message to another order before we tred close to their area though. "

He also turns to Aurora with interest, to hear what she wants to discuss.

[Aurora]

There was a single shoulder shrug. If they wanted to call it Order business, that was fine. “I suppose I just don’t enjoy the discussion of politics. It was part of the driving force in my decision to leave the Ladder.” She got tired of politics and the constant push back against them. Someone always had an opinion on how things should and should not be done. It was exhausting.

“I’m just saying I’m not one that’s going to get too involved in it. There is usually no guiding others once they have their mind made up, even more so with the Awakened. I was against those things being taken away, and I still am. Every society, including our own, needs rules and structure. Without it, we are but people,” she hesitated to use adults, “playing like we know what we are doing and should be taken seriously.” Sacramento had a special place in her heart, it had become a home she had never had. But its politics system was fucked. And when it came down to it, it just might be an attack to make them see that.

“I curious to see how it plays out. Having some semblance of rules and order without actually having any.” Was she skeptical? Damn right she was.

“I personally don’t have any business. I’m quite content translating the texts and tomes I have in my loft. Eager for the chance to get to uncover some item to have safely stored here. I just find politics a bore and a dick measuring contest at its core.” She was blunt, that was for sure.

To Corn, “Being a Mystagogue does not automatically make some worthy to be in a position of power. It’s a fraction of the person and the Awakened they are. A good leader will look past Order and Path and lead with knowledge and wisdom.” And the sooner he could see that, the better. Sure, he was claiming he could, but could he really? “It just surprises me that someone has to point out to you to look beyond someones Order and its stereotypes.” But maybe she just had more world experience then he did.

“But I also think we need to understand we’re not putting a Hierarch in place. A Hierarch rules the Consilii, we do not have that. We have a mishmash of shit with no direction. But if you go at others during the meeting with the expressed goal of a Hierarch, or even using the term, you’ll get shut down in current state of things. Just keep that in mind with throwing the title around. What is wanted is someone able to handle acknowledging new people, whatever you want to call that. If I misunderstood, then my bad.” If they did want a Hierarch, then, well, her words still stood.

A firm shake of her head, “No, I will not be a go between. If it’s decided to approach him, then you can either do it yourself, or it can be done at a meeting.” Corn would either have to grow a pair, or wait for a public meeting.

“So if someone gets a lead on a Tome or whatever, I’d love to have the info shared with me. My usual connections have been quiet as of late, and I would love to get in the field. For Mysterium business.” Not political business.

[Chambers]

Offering Aurora a light shrug and gentle smile. ''We might not be as hardcore as the ladder but get a group of people into an organised system and politics becomes a must. The order has some guiding principles of stances it likes, but of course into every member parrots those, or sticks to them as stringently as others.'' But as you say we needed organisation and with so few your involved if you like it or not.

An open palmed shrug breaks his entwined fingers apart. ''Everything has been quiet of late, no leads are forth coming on anything. I am afraid that's all there is to it at the moment.'' Which is why we need to use this time to get our house in order.


He politely listens to Corns worldview reshaping itself in moments, but doesn't comment, not entirely convinced the massive swing in philosophy is not just to due to it being Aurora who called him on it. Rather choosing to focus on the issue of social niceties. ''We don't need to push Winter to do anything. A simple civil conversation stating our collective agreement that he would be best is all that needs to happen if he refuses then so be it, we back off.'' Looking between the two. ''I can have that conversation if needed.'' We have a deal we need to follow up on anyway. He does nod once to Corn however, as how to conduct themselves regarding the labyrinth seems to be settled.

He actually frowns questioningly at Aurora. ''What are we if not A Consilium?'' He hides well the feeling of bubbling resentment at being judged by those who left allowing things to fall so very far. ''I grant you the model as is mirrors far more a free council assembly but as noted I have with some success slowly moved to bring about small improvements to organisation. Smoothing the path for larger changes.'' Until someone pulled the pie of leadership out of the oven before it was ready. ''Would you help me understand your stance? I have already pointed out the flaws in a councillor system. We have a system of acknowledgement that covers what to do if representation is lacking, and just putting titles to it for the sake of that is pointless grandstanding.'' Not least because the only people who will actually need to contend for such will be me and Corn. ''I put forward an alternative suggestion about using a system similar to cabal that got no comment.'' But it's better then just deafly beating out the same arguments over and over. ''Allow me to use the metaphor of a ship. Until someone grabs the wheel it has no heading, no direction beyond what the wind wills. Making everyone a councillor achieves nothing we are in the same position just we have titles now. Leadership is needed for direction.'' You seem to want organisation yet are opposed to the things we need to achieve it. He holds himself calmly in his seat, patiently awaiting her reply.

[Corn]

"Do we know, as an Order, where we want that ship to sail to? " Corn asks. "That's an important question, perhaps as important as to who would grab the wheel to get us there. The decision to map the lay-lines, look for nodes and hallows seems a step towards the right direction. Security is another matter and another step towards what I think is the right direction. Winter explained that the Circle is secure from outside - as secure as it can be given what our enemies can do. But I have some ideas for how we could make the Athenaum more secure while also having a forewarning if someone broke in. But before we speak about security of the Athenaum, what do you guys think about where the few mages of this consilium should focus on? "

[Aurora]

“Every Order has guiding principles; but they are simply that, guides.” She didn’t need an Order to tell her how to think. Or what was right and what was wrong.

Frowning, “That’s disappointing, I had been hoping for a lead. There has to be something we can find and secure.” It was easy to see this was something she was passionate about.

“To be honest, I’m not sure what we are, I don’t have that answer. Can a Consilium exist without a Charter and without structure? I suppose the answer is all in what you think makes a Consilium.” She wasn’t sure. Aurora had always been someone who liked structure. “And what stance is that? If it’s about Councilors, it’s not simple grandstanding with titles, it’s a step towards a normalcy and order where there is none. And sure, your idea of a Cabal type structure has its merits, but it also has its downfalls. Someone has to be in a position of power with a title, and as you put it, that would be grandstanding would it not?” she’d been in Cabals, there were roles to fill. “Even if you go the nontraditional route of a Cabal, does every Awakened who comes to Sacramento get a say and a place? What happens when the numbers grow to, oh, lets say, ten Awakened. Does it move past being like a Cabal but not, and move towards something more streamlined?” there were faults in everything, “Someone will always find faults in whatever you present them, there is no good answer or solution. But like I mentioned already, I’m staying out of the politics arena. It’s torn this community apart before.” And it was getting close to doing it again.

A deep sigh, “Look, I’m not looking to argue about what is the right way and what is the wrong. Because I don’t know. I just know I, personally, enjoy structure. When I left, the structure we had left was crumbling. And I’ve seen these conversations turn dangerous, and I don’t want that.” Did she look defeated? A bit, she was tired. Politics exhausted her. “I’ll offer my opinions when it’s discussed with everyone as a whole, and hope we can all come to some agreement that works.”

To Corn, a shrug, “It’s hard to tell someone what to focus on, we all have goals, and some don’t align with everyone else. I think as a whole, we should focus on making sure the city is safe, map out the Ley Lines if we can, and learn to work together.”

[Chambers]

Looking to Corn first to address his contributions. ''With no leads to chase, nothing in the Athenaeum to research and not enough mages to even count as a caucus.'' He smiles thinly, taking the stance the guardian had been advocating for months. ''Now is the time both as an order and Consilium to get out house in order.'' In no uncertain terms if we have not resolved these issues by the time a storm breaks we will be swept aside with ease. ''So yes knowledge and security, of the circle and order wing I agree, what do you have in mind?'' Being as aware and secure as we can is the best we can hope for at the moment.

Back to Aurora. ''It would seem we want the same thing, structure.'' Start with common ground. ''Just differ notably on how to get to it.'' He does not seem put out or put off, just calm, measured and speaks gently. ''Unfortunely if you believe waylaying these conversation until you are faced with the collective whole will be easier, you are mistaken.'' Putting it off does no good, it just delays what needs to be done. ''Neither of us is here to argue, rather to debate, and that involves disagreement, if we as an order cannot work through it, how so will a larger less aligned group?'' Difficult it might be but we will be stronger for it. ''I have no intention of turning nasty just because you and I think differently.'' Such differences are essential in the order. ''Likewise, I trust you have good intentions.'' Or else this wouldn't be a discussion.

A hand comes to rest under his chin as he thinks over how best to approach this. ''The role of councillor does more then handle acknowledgments. If that's all we are assigning them for, the role is not one we currently need.'' That does not mean we should be without structure. ''We cannot revive a charter without a hierarch, a position that is just a much a return to normalcy for a Consilium as any other, yet you seem opposed to assigning one presently.'' He spreads his hands. ''Hence my cabal roles idea. It provides structure in that everyone will have an area to focus on, it provides motivation, direction, it makes sure the right skills are being utilised to achieve the best results. The titles convey no real power more then that serving as adjectives to indicate who is focused on dealing with what problems.'' True it is unconventional. ''But it is a start, a step in the right direction, and at the moment small steps are better then the nothing we currently have.'' And who knows from this those best suited to more official positions might arise.

A gentle smile is offered. Ten mages come now that's grasping at straws. ''When I arrived in July I brought attendance up to four. The mages who have come and gone since mean we currently total five regular participants. Even if we make ten assigning two people to each role when we have a city to cover is hardly unreasonable as the prescient for doing so already exists in cabals.'' Maybe she doesn't realise the scale of our problem. ''The average Consilium has; a hierarch, five councillors, five provosts; and a smattering of sentinels and heralds bringing the number of roles to fill to twenty or more. And that's before you consider general population.'' Which could be easily double or triple that. ''If we get to twenty mages then maybe the system would need to be looked at again.'' If we get to twenty mages I'd hand write whatever the charter turned out to be myself. ''But not acting to solve the issue at based on unknown ifs or maybes is not productive. We could just as easily say what's the point in having structure at all in case we dip down to just one mage.'' That point was double edged and she smart enough to know it, so why use it? He waits calmly for her response, he seems in rush, nor to be antagonised by the situation.

[Corn]

Corn listens carefully and weighs his words before replying.
"I also agree we need structure. I don't agree we need a council, not with five mages and I don't think that what makes a group of mages a consilium is the charter, but the Lex. A charter is good to have Aurora but I am concerned it will be a bloodbath again if we try to bring one back. I don't want to go back to the shouting matches we had with Puck.
However, I have come to agree with Aurora a bit on the title issue; perhaps the title of Hierarch should not be used as it is. And perhaps, I am just throwing out ideas here, we should go with a provisional title, something like an acting Hierarch with limited authority. I disagree on the Cabal front, though, Chambers . Simply put a cabal is a strong word and implies a stronger alliance than we can currently support; mages in Sacramento come and go. It is the way it is. We're the gatekeepers for the Circle and people come and people go and occasionally return.
As Aurora said filling roles in a cabal is different than filling roles in a small consilium where people barely know each other. "

Corn makes a small pause.
"Apparently the three of us all want structure but have different ideas of how to proceed. I see this as an exchange of ideas and opinions, like Chambers said. But I strongly believe we need to walk out of here with a plan, one that we can get behind even if it is not, in our opinion, the optimum. "


He returns to the point of safety. "When it comes to safety, Winter said that our personal abilities are important. Before I left Sacramento, Phoenyx - she was the First Talon of the Adamantine Arrow Chambers - was willing to train people and combat people to prepare us. I had a ... session with her on how to combat mages which ended in a draw. I am quite proud of that to be honest. Anyway, her point was more or less that learning to fight would be easier by fighting. I indeed learned a lot. But it was very painful.

I also have in mind some things we can cast to increase the safety of the Athenaum but again, this can wait until after we have decided a course of action when it comes to direction for the order and a plan for what kind of structure we, as an order, would support for Sacramento. Then we can talk about safety.

Mapping the lay-lines is a good way to start. But going through our knowledge to create more of it - research and dissemination - is useful too even though it is less 'active'. "

[Aurora]

“I suppose I’m just a bit jaded by seeing how this has gone down in the past. But I’m glad you’re optimistic, I hope you’re able to stay that way.” Did she expect it to blow up like it had before? Honestly, she wasn’t sure.

“I’m opposed because of how it has been handled in the past. The discussion has become so heated that there were talks of a Duel. So yeah, I’m opposed to it until I know the collective gathering can have a civil and adult conversation about it. There will be strong feelings on either side of it, and they tend to get out of control.” It was what it was. “I would love for us to return to those days of normalcy, but I don’t know if we can.” And maybe she just needed to be ok with that.

A sigh, “I assure you; I am well aware of what an average Consilium contains. I’ve been part of them in other cities, and even here in Sacramento when I first arrived.” She felt like she was being talked to like she was stupid. “What I am saying, is that if we don’t deal with this before the city grows, it will become more and more difficult to get any sense of order back.” More Awakened meant more opinions and more room for fights over it.

She didn’t have anything to add on to what Corn said. Though she did find it unbelievable that he came to draw against Phoenyx. Maybe she went easy on him, only thing that would make it believable to her.