Not quite New York, but...

[Helen Kingsley]

"Fancy way of putting it." Helen remarks. "I'm just putting this out so nobody gets caught up on some stuff any one of us thought the other thought without talking getting involved. Maybe I missed something, maybe not. All I'm saying is not everything you've said fits with what I remember happening. Observation, not judgement."

Helen has still not decided what lies underneath what Bellemy has told her. While she does hav a suspicion about what may be going on, she's trying to stay open to alternatives and reserves judgement for some time when more information has presented itself.

"So, to get back to your letter. It sorta read like you fear I'd take your vote personally and that'd put a damper on our relationship. As far as I'm concerned, there's two things I want to make crystal clear. One, I don't take stuff like that personally. As far as I'm concerned, all's peachy between us. Two, giving absolutions to people is a business I don't have any stocks in anymore. If you think you need forgiveness for that stuff, look for it no further than inside yourself."

She finishes her little diatribe with a look at Bellemy that sort of closes the topic while leaving space for questions.

[Bellemy]

Bellemy was still while Helen spoke. After a moment the haunt replied "Thank you for helping me to understand." in a not unkind manner."You are you and I am me. I won't go so far as to apologize for screwing up, but..." Bellemy left it hanging but by the tone it was clearly ment as a joke.


"If the matter is well and truly behind us. I really would like to hear your thoughts on the Movement. Jennifer was kind enough to go into some great detail with me regarding why there is currently no active Carthians but I want your opinion. If you have one."

[Helen Kingsley]

"On why there is no Movement ? I only know what Jennifer told us at the meet, really, which is apparently a bunch of guys decided they'd put enough effort into fucking stuff up that it sticks to everyone taking up the covenant allegiance. A bit like shit on shoes, except that actually means good luck. This here meant nothing good for nobody, apparently."

Not that she'd talked a lot to Jennifer about that, but then, they only got into that topic about half-way once, and that sorta poofed and since then, there hadn't been much of an opportunity to revisit it in a way that didn't feel forced.

"So what exactly do you want to know what I think about the movement ? What I think our situation is ? What we could or should do or generally, like, why do I think the Covenant is great and what it should do and how that sorry bunch made me enthusiastic about wanting to be part of it ?"

[Bellemy]

Bellemy's interaction with Jennifer was apparently slightly more detailed then Helen received but it all amounted to the same thing.

Bellemy thought for a moment on which of the many questions to attack first and finally answered with "Yes to all of it. To start is there a particular model that appeals to you more than others. For instamce are you an individualist or a collectivist? Would you prefer a libertarian ruling class or is statism your thing? Or do you perhaps not really care at all about what tge best philosophy is as long as we find our way out of the miasma that is feudalism in our society?"

[Helen Kingsley]

"I recognize there's stuff that needs doing or some sort of greater good that needs a leg up evry now and then, but I generally like my peace and quiet and also like to do my own weighing the options on whats more important to me in a given situation. And while I don't fancy living in a dictatorship, I recognize that authority and hierarchies are useful more often than not and not, like, the Devil. Never been too much into philosophy, really. Too easy to either rip out of context or read as gospel and apply textbook-style. And like that the stuff becomes rigid, unfelxible and worthless. Especially goes for all those things ending in -ism. Take the one best equipped for the job, put them in charge for the time it takes to finish the job and thats it. Doesn't work so well on bigger groups, but its simple and me ? I like simple and I don't pretend I have it all figured out already."

Helen shrugs.

"So, leaving aside all those big fancy words that don't mean too much, what part of those models, thought schools and diagrams appeals to you ?"

[Bellemy]

Bellemy smiled a genuine smile at Helen. The Haunt gave a small nod. "Fair enough."

Bellemy had to think on the best way to explain. Finally the haunt answered. "I believe in a democratic method in which the voices of the collective people are heard. I am ok with the thought of a prince ruling. But that prince should be in the spot because they are the best candidate not because they can rip the heads off of all opposition."

Bellemy searched Helen's face for a reaction before continuing. "I am a socialist. I believe that those in power should even out the resources between all subjects that the domain would thrive as a whole. I believe the Ivory towers should be opened to all loyal subjects."

"I have been treated well in this domain since my arrival. The Prince holds the domain together well enough. I only wonder what good works could be accomplished if the leadership was not so...insular."

[Helen Kingsley]

"Everyone getting heard is a good thing, yes. I guess I'm not too sure what exactly you mean by collectively."

Helen looks at Bellemy directly, as if she's looking for something in her expression, or she's just processing what she's heard.

"How do you decide who's the best suited for the task, though ? Sure, the best candidate in situation A might not be the cream of the crop some years down the road when things have changed. I mean, Prince for xample, isn't what I'd call an administrative advancement. What does it take to decide new brooms are in order ? Special occasions or like, regular intervals ? Any case, the one in office holds a significant advantage over lots of contenders, except we're talking about some really strict partition of assets of the job and those of the holder and a lot of people making sure things don't get muddled up or leeched off. If it even works in the first place..."

She frowns as Belly calls herself a socialist.

"Like what ? All assets, ghouls and stuffs belong to everyone or some collective ? Cut that stuff up into tiny same-sized parcels, one for each citizen ? What'd make somebody a 'loyal subject' ? I mean, subject already implies some sort of hierarchy. I mean, sure, the numbers of vampires are low enough that some sort of communist or socialist approach might sorta work, but how'd you imagine that ?"

[Bellemy]

I just mean as a group over say only the Ventrue or omly Jennifer's inner circle. The whole group.

Bellemy sat still open to any scrutiny.

"That one is easy. Vote. Bellemy smiled then added "and I am not prepared to give you a fully researched and fleshed out political system to lead a revolution with. I don't have all the answere. That's why we should talk to people."

Bellemy sighed. "Think of it this way. There are a hundred cows. There are ten people. Each person gets ten cows. Those cows belong to those people. Each year ever person's farm grows by five cows. Every year each person pays one cow as tax. Eventually another person arrives. They get ten cows out of the tax. At then end of the year they each put in one cow tax. I know it is a really basic example but I am sure you get the point."

[Helen Kingsley]

"I get what you mean, yes. Me, I think it sounds better in theory than it'll work in practice, not the least because it'll be a little more complicated and messy than dividing a bunch of cows among the lot of us. I'm open to getting proven wrong, of course, depending how that#s going to get implemented. Lots of nooks and crannies to think about and take care of. And thats not even getting past the immediate group and looking at the really big picture of the town and the standing among the other covenants."

But that's how it always is and maybe if a few things are lost in translation, its her own fault ? Still, Helen isn't very convinced about the particular approach. Or its just because as soon as someone starts talking about socialism, she's way too ready to believe she can hear socialisms bigger and badder cousin sneak in and creeping closer...

"I mean, vote is clear, the fun question is, who gets one and who gets to decide that. But that's getting into some finer points that aren't that important at this point, I guess. I don't expect a perfect political system, just some tenets to see where we are, anyways.

So, stereotypes about leftist intellectuals aside, what got you into this particular bunch and the socialist corner ?"

[Bellemy]

Bellemy waved a hand. "I can agree it will be far more complicated in practice but my general philosophy remains the same."

"Well in my head every Kindred gets a vote. If you live in the domain and are of upstanding citizenship you count. I am also open to a discussion about Ghouls although I admit that is trickier and opens the door for vote stacking. But I would listen to opinions."

Bellemy considered the last question for a moment to find a suitable answer.
"I have always been more liberally minded and future looking. Even before the turn. I admit. In this domain there isn't much room for the Carthians when even the Invictus love technology as they do here. The prince isn't as dominating as in other areas. The whole domain seems filled with forward thinkers. There are only a few areas that may be improved. But that could all change so it is best to be prepared."