Mage OOC Talk and Questions

[Xander]

The 2E sights are cast as spells like their 1E counterparts, the only thing that changed is their effects beyond providing mage sight as listed in the Mage group. I'd say you need to combine mage sights to get the effects of more than one. otherwise the spell with the highest potency takes precedence.

As for your questions on counterspells and scrying, I'd like to refer you back to the core rulebook for another read. One of those mechanics doesn't work the way you describe them and one isn't even using the correct terminology. We made a point to you earlier about reading things, so asking about 'scrying' for mana isn't something I intend to answer. Read the book, learn the terminology, and then ask your questions.

As for your request for a scene, if someone wants to run you a prp for you to get your feet wet they are welcome to do so. I will be running plots and the plot add will go up in the future time table I described previously. I have a lot on my plate at the moment, and my time for posting is typically scarce. The time I have will go towards plots for the venue and then my character. Solo quests of any variety are off the table from me unfortunately.

[deltadream]

If you are interested in playing with understanding of mechanics I would suggest doing a glimpse Xisdor .

It limits a bit to what you can do as there isn't an active plot that Xander would be running for you, so the spells are mostly personal casts. But I know that as a new Mage player myself it's where I've gone to try and test my understanding of Mage Math.

[Xisdor]

Thanks, Deltadream, I will try that if I`m allowed.

But this(my above post) was exactly what I was afraid of, me making stupid mistakes again and wasting your time with my mistakes. I`m very sorry about that. I was trying to ask about scouring, but that doesn`t matter now, since I misspelled the word. I don`t know why I was thinking of scouring and writing scrying. I wanted to know if scoured mana carries over between scenes and stories that immediately follow each other chronologically, if not used, or if the scene mana calculation of Hallow dots+ wisdom is absolute.
However, I still find my question on counterspell valid, because I extensively compared the wording between 1e and 2e.
Per house rules: spells of proficiency 1 and 2 are considered covert, and proficiency 3, 4 and 5 are vulgar. Furthermore:
MTAW 1e p. 123 ”A covert spell cannot normally be countered, since the defending mage must first identify its Arcanum components using the normal rules for doing so (see "Scrutinizing Spells" p. 278)….. He must first have Mage Sight to be able to perceive the attacking spell.”
Hence, house rules on mage sight, spell aspect, scrutinizing spells and mysteries, counterspell and whether we`re using 1e or 2e are all connected, which makes this problem very complex and hard to wrap my head around in my opinion.
Thus, per 1st edition and house rules, proficiency 1 and 2 spells cannot be used counterspell on unless you scrutinize the spell?
My interpretation of 2nd edition disputes this however:
MTAW 2e p. 92 ”Active Mage Sight of any Arcanum also reveals all Awakened spells as they are being cast. The mage can see another willworker’s Nimbus flare as he forms the Imago and casts the spell (which, in turn, gives the observant mage a chance to use the Counterspell Attainment if she knows the Arcanum involved).”

This seemed like a general statement also explained in 1e in parts but it has confused me nevertheless and potentially leads to ambiguity between versions. Does “know” refer to the watching mage being aware that the spell is that particular arcanum, or that he has lore knowledge in that arcanum. If it is both, I assume one gets to "know" the Arcanum if one views it through the correct mage sight, or does one need to focus further, such as with focused sight?

MTAW 2e p.91 “Any supernatural effect falling under the purview of the Arcanum that the mage can see is highlighted if she is using the correct Sight.”

If I am interpreting this correctly, in 2e, any mage viewing someone casting any spell, vulgar or not, with the same mage sight as the Arcanum of the spell being used, can see the spell coming, know which Arcanum it is, and counterspell it.

This leads to another question if the above assumption is false. Since we are using 2e Mage Sight, are we are using the 2e system with Opacity, focused mage sight, unravelling mysteries, scrutiny and revelation for deducing the mystery that is the other spell, or does mage sight of the same type as the spell suffice to counter it, as I assumed above,( See Unraveling mysteries 2e p.93f)? Or are we using the 1e scrutiny of spells and objects as in 1e p. 278?

So, are we using the 1st or second edition rules for the whole combination of counterspell, mage sight and mystery unraveling, or parts of each, as we are already using 2e mage sight?

On an unrelated topic, I understand you have no reason to believe me after my pre-posting mistake, my misspelling of the word scouring, and me seemingly trivializing over details on mage sight, scouring. But I am trying my best, even if it doesn`t seem like it.

[deltadream]

I'm far from qualified enough to answer, but maybe if I give it a shot it will help me with my own understanding of things.

Countering magic works per 1E write up. There are 3 options.

You can shield against it with the Prime spell Magic Shield
You can dispel it with Prime spells Dispel Magic (requires 1 dot in arcana for each in attacking spell) or Counterspell Prime (does not require dots in arcana and thus can be used for covert spells)
You can Counterspell (Requires at least 1 dot in one of the arcana used in the attacking spell)

We aren't using the entirety of 2E rules for Mage Sight. Just the nifty bonuses that it gives depending on what arcana it is cast with. As Xander said- these can be found in the Mage Social group.

Therefore, the quote you have from p92 of MTAW 2E is thrown out.

You have to cast mage sight and scrutinize to see/evaluate a covert spell's make up. Then (if you have time) you can try to countermagic the spell using one of the three options above.

I don't recall off the top of my head the mana rules. I haven't yet had to have Witch tap into hers for scenes. I'll see about trying to look it up and see if it's stated anywhere.

[Orianna]

From what I remember in the couple times I had my mage scour...it was not pleasant, it hurt like hell and the damage you do to yourself does not heal with magic. I don't remember if the mana carried over...I only know there wasn't a lot to get and it was used in the scene.

[Xisdor]

Thanks guys, that helped clear up quite a bit of confusion I had.
To summarize: 1e is the baseline for scrutinizing, and proficiency 1 and 2 spells cannot be countered without some precognitive or time speeding effect that eases scrutiny, unless you have prime 2. So if I use blatant proficiency 1 or 2 spells in combat, pretty much no one can counter me unless they have prime, and also sleepers don`t notice them because they are defined as covert.
As for scouring, if it resets between scenes I`d be incentivized to spend as much mana as possible in a scene, as I`d get it back in the next one. So if you spend some in a scene without regenerating it in some way for the immediately following scene, like with either an offering/sacrifice, pattern scouring or an oblation at a hallow, do you have less in that following scene? Are you just assumed to have been at your hallow between scenes if you have hallow dots? Either, scouring can only be done during a scene as an emergency mana ration, or if it carries over between scenes, you could scour so you have more mana when you need it later, and endure the pain to achieve this.

[Orianna]

It's an emergency resource that is painful, and takes away from your Attributes. I would read up on the Wiki about Mana....about getting it...Hallows...and Scouring. Mana is a precious for Mages, not something they take lightly and just use for shits and giggles.

[Xander]

Any spell can be counterspelled, and mana doesn't carry over between scenes regardless of source.

Orianna is right in that, according to RAW, Mana is a precious resource and scouring is the most painful way of acquiring it. The issue in extended play is mana only really comes up in plots. You can usually use it for frivolous things in your social threads (I almost wrote a glimpse with Emrys using divination magic to pick where to go for dinner), or not. That one is more an RP consideration than a hard right/wrong answer. Just know that scouring to much may lead to temporary derangements per the wiki due to the mental toll of the agony, and that I'm not above dropping Trouble into a scene if I feel that behavior is being metagamed based on an OOC understanding of the risks/scene type.

[Xisdor]

OK. Thanks. That cleared that up. I wanted to emphasize though that I understand that mana is not trivial in any way for mage characters and any use or gain during a scene has to be roleplayed IC. This does however not preclude me doing petty things with my character IC, though. I merely wanted to know how the site`s mechanics work on a number of subjects. Using this knowledge IC is obviously wrong as has been described in the metagaming thread, and can no doubt lead to severe OOC consequences as appropriate in addition to IC fun.

[Xisdor]

I don`t know if I made a formatting mistake regarding the thought process of Philip. But I didn`t write it in the first person like a true coherent thought, that I italicised in the post before. And I thought only first person thoughts were supposed to be italicised. This is more like a longer drawn out thought process that isn`t supposed to be italicised, and I wrote it in 3rd person, so I hope I`m not wrong.