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Twilight Valley
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West
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008
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Location: Houston, TX
Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:09 pm
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 Mage Venue House Rules (Proposed)
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Extended Action rolls will be limited to a number equal to your Gnosis. This includes ritual castings and Scrutiny.
Rote die pools are based on NATURAL Attributes and Skills.
Ambient (free) Mana at a Hallow can only be used daily in an amount equal to your Gnosis.
Rote "dots" may be exchanged for Merit "dots" on a 2-for-1 basis.
Starting play with a Legacy will require 12 XP. This XP can be represented as either a Legacy Mentor 3, or as Legacy XP paid that Mentor, or both.
Multiple-attack Fighting Styles will cap at normal Mortal values of Attribute (5).
MET: Awakening Precast system is used to begin play with Imbued Items or Active spells (allocate Gnosis x Stamina successes).
Not Allowed:
- Banisher Merits
- Tome of the Mystery "Optional" Rules
- Long Shifter Merit from TotW
- Any Left-Handed (or near Left-Handed) Legacies
Spell Adjustments:
Puissant Skill and Willful process are upped to 3 dot spells and cost Mana.
Supreme Augmentation is limited to 2X Arcana level for Potency.
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These rules are now in effect.
I will also now be assisting Nightmaster as a Moderator, for rules purposes only. I also understand if the new house rules make some adjustments necessary to the character sheets.
I'd also like to talk about these rules, and their purpose. Twilight Valley is a mixed-venue game, and it is important that every player feels "valid" and isn't overpowered by dint of having picked a particular splat. All of these house rules are designed to bring Mages "in-line" with the other splats. That means that this will probably be a "lower powered" Mage game than most people are used to. It also means that the first criteria of any ambiguous rule will be to examine how it affects the balance of Twilight Valley, and that the decision will be based on that alone.
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
Last edited by West on Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:11 pm; edited 6 times in total
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tsameti
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Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:38 pm
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I would like to request that the extended casting limit be raised to Gnosis + 1
So that a mage with Gnosis 1 will be able to actually gain a benefit from casting an instant spell as an extended.
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Lermanicus
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Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:01 pm
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| tsameti wrote: | I would like to request that the extended casting limit be raised to Gnosis + 1
So that a mage with Gnosis 1 will be able to actually gain a benefit from casting an instant spell as an extended. |
He is wise! The other way to handle this is say the minimum is 2 so there is no +1 to a higher gnosis character.
_________________
Nothing is random, we just don't understand the variables.
Lt. August Kordecki (Mortal)
John Dee (Awakened)
Nicodemus Panagopoulos (Ghoul)
Twinkee Joe (Forsaken) Glory 1 Honor 2 Purity 2 Wisdom 1
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Kai
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Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:06 pm
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The argument could be made that reasonably a gnosis 1 character doesn't understand magic enough to gain the benefit of ritual casting anyway...im indifferent either way.
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Kai: SS(*), MS(*), FS$( 8), SA$(20) ,SH$(17), M:12/15, W:8/9,H:13/13
Occultation ***
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sjones7060
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Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:29 pm
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Re: Mage Venue House Rules
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| West wrote: |
Extemporaneous Affinity is not allowed.
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I'm assuming there ISNT a grandfather clause for this and I just gained XP back if I'm losing it for both my characters.
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Dredloke
Requiem ST
Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:43 pm
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Re: Mage Venue House Rules
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| sjones7060 wrote: | | West wrote: |
Extemporaneous Affinity is not allowed.
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I'm assuming there ISNT a grandfather clause for this and I just gained XP back if I'm losing it for both my characters. |
If you spent XP on this then yes you get it back to spend on something else.
WHEN you trade it in, if you can't spend it right away you can bank it to add to other earned XP.
If it was earned with Creation Points (7 merit points) then you MUST spend it as Creation point right away.
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West
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Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:46 pm
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To the Limit is also going away.
Regarding Ritual Casting for Gnosis 1 characters:
I think I'll leave the rule as it is. A character already gains a large benefit in switching to an Extended cast because they are chasing extra successes rather than taking penalties. So, there *is* still a benefit for Gnosis 1 character.
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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tsameti
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Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:54 pm
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unfortunately that is not the case.
Because during an instant cast, a Mage may drop 2 dice to gain an auxiliary spell factor. (Say Duration)
BUT an Extended cast requires a SUCCESS to gain the same factor, which usually can be expected for every 3 dice rolled.
So... You'd in fact be WORSE off by changing an instant cast to a one roll extended.
In addition the change I propose lessens the relative advantage that high Gnosis characters have over low Gnosis ones.
Which is a big deal. Not all of us have Gnosis 5, some of us did opt to create 160xp characters.
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West
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008
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Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:07 pm
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| tsameti wrote: | unfortunately that is not the case.
Because during an instant cast, a Mage may drop 2 dice to gain an auxiliary spell factor. (Say Duration)
BUT an Extended cast requires a SUCCESS to gain the same factor, which usually can be expected for every 3 dice rolled. |
If we were playing with the result of mathematical averages only, you would have a case.
However, die penalties (including "dropped" Factor die) remove the possibility of "die explosions" from the 10-again rule.
Does this rule put an emphasis on Gnosis? Absolutely. Just as Requiem, Lost, and Forsaken all put an emphasis on their Advantages.
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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West
Mage Moderator
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 1665
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Location: Houston, TX
Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:03 pm
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I think we'll also make two more "tweaks".
The first is that starting play with a Legacy will require 12 XP. This XP can be represented as either a Legacy Mentor 3, or as Legacy XP paid that Mentor, or both.
-- This extra cost is designed to offset the fact that Legacies are more powerful than Bloodlines and Entitlements. It also thematically represents the weight given to Legacy Mentors and the Legacy XP paid that Mentor, per core MtA.
The second is that we'll drop the Rote Limitation rule. In it's place, we'll say that Attribute and Skill boosts will *not* affect Rote die pools. They will be based on natural Atts and Skills, just like Spell Tolerance is based on natural Stamina.
-- The reasoning behind this is that all the other splats can start play with large die pool Disciplines or Contracts, so it isn't fair to limit Mages; however, the other splats have to pay for these die pools by buying the Atts and Skills that go into them. This will equalize the cost of Powers die pools.
I wanted to put these on the table in case anyone can think of a reason that I have missed where these might cause problems. Remember, the goal here is to equalize crossover play. Nothing more, nothing less.
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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Dredloke
Requiem ST
Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:14 pm
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Ok Color me dumb here....
But Vamps can spend Blood to boost a Physical by 2 for a Round...I.e. Burn a blood pump str up 2 dice to hit that much harder. Wouldn't what your saying Mages cannot do be along the same lines? OR is it that this is a do once and stay a scene type of ability?
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Lermanicus
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Joined: 21 Dec 2008
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:19 pm
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Good point this issue is a mind mage can easily boost 6 stats by 4 for weeks if not indefinite for 1 or a few mana.
_________________
Nothing is random, we just don't understand the variables.
Lt. August Kordecki (Mortal)
John Dee (Awakened)
Nicodemus Panagopoulos (Ghoul)
Twinkee Joe (Forsaken) Glory 1 Honor 2 Purity 2 Wisdom 1
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West
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:22 pm
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@ Dred
No, a Mage could still boost his STR and hit harder, or boot his DEX for Iniative. What I'm saying is that this would not also affect a Rote pool which had these Attributes.
Let's say a Mage wants to cast his Life Force Assault Rote. This die pool is DEX + Athletics + Life. Typically, a Mage could Hone the Form and add value to DEX as well as cast Gain Skill and add value to Athletics. Rules as written, these increases would also then increase the Rote as well as providing the ancillary benefits of having boosted DEX (DEF, Initiative) and Athletics (Throwing, Dodge).
So a Mage who had DEX 4 + Athletics 4 + Life 4 could cast two spells (Honing the Form, Gain Skill) prior to combat and change that Rote pool from 12 die to 14-20 die.
What I'm suggesting is that these boosted Atts and Skills would not result in a raise for the Rote pool as well, that the Rote pool would be based on the natural values.
Unless I'm mistaken and the other splats can boost Atts and Skills for a Scene thereby increasing their Powers pools?
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
Last edited by West on Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lermanicus
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:30 pm
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@ West
While I agree with you I thought Puissant Skill add rote action per success on to a physical skill. That would not effect a rote.
Not that a 16 die pool for a whole scene for 1 mana is bad. But if that mage ritualizes the spell that morning he could have a plus 4 to all physical attributes all day or longer for 1 mana.
_________________
Nothing is random, we just don't understand the variables.
Lt. August Kordecki (Mortal)
John Dee (Awakened)
Nicodemus Panagopoulos (Ghoul)
Twinkee Joe (Forsaken) Glory 1 Honor 2 Purity 2 Wisdom 1
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West
Mage Moderator
Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 1665
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Location: Houston, TX
Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:36 pm
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Ooops you're right. I mean a Life version of Gain Skill. I'll edit.
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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sjones7060
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:37 pm
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| West wrote: | I think we'll also make two more "tweaks".
The first is that starting play with a Legacy will require 12 XP. This XP can be represented as either a Legacy Mentor 3, or as Legacy XP paid that Mentor, or both.
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*Looks over at Azrael and Circe who had to be shelved because of recent changes, the Legacy Tax hitting them even more.*
~Shredder~
*Looks at the new Elder he made, and then the Legacy XP tax again*
~Shredder~
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Lermanicus
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:41 pm
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| sjones7060 wrote: | *Looks over at Azrael and Circe who had to be shelved because of recent changes, the Legacy Tax hitting them even more.*
~Shredder~
*Looks at the new Elder he made, and then the Legacy XP tax again*
~Shredder~ |
Yeah, John is close to the shredder right now. But I am glad this is happening now rather than in a month from now. It needed to be done.
_________________
Nothing is random, we just don't understand the variables.
Lt. August Kordecki (Mortal)
John Dee (Awakened)
Nicodemus Panagopoulos (Ghoul)
Twinkee Joe (Forsaken) Glory 1 Honor 2 Purity 2 Wisdom 1
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sjones7060
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:44 pm
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I know. I just wish I hadnt several hours last night getting all excitied about a new character to be hit with that. After redoing Azrael and Circe several times over for a brand new character to end up going through the same constant reworks I'm about to scream.
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Lermanicus
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:48 pm
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I am with you. I think we should have a FINAL MAGE RULES thread that states what has been implemented. I don't want to change and then have to readjust so I can rereadjust soon.
With that said I 100% behind the changes.
_________________
Nothing is random, we just don't understand the variables.
Lt. August Kordecki (Mortal)
John Dee (Awakened)
Nicodemus Panagopoulos (Ghoul)
Twinkee Joe (Forsaken) Glory 1 Honor 2 Purity 2 Wisdom 1
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Dredloke
Requiem ST
Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:52 pm
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Alas the changes are a work in progress....just like anything else that is a living entity it changes as we learn about it.
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sjones7060
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:54 pm
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Its all good. Azrael and Circe arent going to "die" I just feel I need to shelve them until I have the energy and the resolve to rework them. Probably easier to just make the one character now per genre anyways until things get rolling. I think I can sponge another 6 XP from something to get the Mentor Legacy issue resolved for my other character idea.
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Dredloke
Requiem ST
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:58 pm
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<Slides SJONES7060 6 xp, like scraping greenbeans to the dog under the table>
Shh don't tell
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sjones7060
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:02 pm
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~ Slips the XP into pocket~
Tell what? 
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West
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:05 pm
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| West wrote: | @ Dred
Unless I'm mistaken and the other splats can boost Atts and Skills for a Scene thereby increasing their Powers die pools? |
pssst ?
_________________
Dog: Protean 1
Asa: Protean 1, Striking Looks 2 (handsome), Presence 4 ((-1 Vitae)) Resilience
Nightfall: Polychromatic Fairest, Striking Looks 2 (Intense Eyes) -2 Glamour -1 WP
Zero: TrAur$, Untouch$
West: SupAug$*, Misdir$ + MenS$, 3rd Eye$ + MTM$ (PerInv, Acc, PsySwX3)(4.0)
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Dredloke
Requiem ST
Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:36 pm
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The only things I know of are Vamp....
Vigor will Enhance your strength by adding automatically to the str stat which in turn effects everything in that. That is for a Scene.
Celerity has been so nerfed that its practally useless, ok not really just compared to old school. But it still does not up a Stat. And its boost is only for a Turn.
Resiliance lets you add your dots of that to your health while its active. And you can drop a number of AGGYS down to lethal up to your dots in Resiliance. So if you had 4 dots and took 2 aggs, you burn for resiliance add 4 health levels right then and thier, then turn those first two aggs into lethals. next time you take three aggs, you can turn two of them to lethal and have taken your first agg at that point, all others after that will be considered aggs as well.
As stated before burn a blood to increase a stat by 2 for that ROUND but that is it.
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