Character Creation (Info in First Post)

[White]

Hey Samoht

I'd be happy to have my character "Edward Heinrich" (Daeva once Invictus now unaligned) be a reagent for your ghoul character.
I'm fairly involved in plots, so you'd probably get a decent amount of screen time.

If you'd like to know more details about my character (e.g. what bloodline is Edward? What would he expect from a ghoul?) or just have general questions feel free to ping me on Discord.

Cheers,
White

[Samoht]

I prepared a really long post before you wrote in here.

I am going to post it in here anyway because it gives a lot of insight into my character, but since I can talk to you in discord parts of my old post are going to be obsolete.

(So the following spoiler doesn't need much answering anymore and is mainly for posterity

Spoiler

Hi, thank you for the reply.

I don't imagine him as an independent ghoul, the "quick fix" is just an explanation on how he would come to look for a Regnant fairly quickly.
And I imagine that it would take a while (about 1 to 6 months) before he get's to a good enough standing with the Vampire he get's his Vitae from to allow my Character to interact within Scenes in the Vampire Society.
I know about his lowly standing and don't mind him being like that, he desires to improve his status despite knowing that he might be unable to do so. He still tries to get as close to his goal as possible and for that he wants to become the best at any task anyone could ever ask.

I don't plan on him becoming a Vampire, if it happens that would be great for him, but he has been a ghoul for a long time and he doesn't want to go on without that sweet sweet Vitae. Taking a "bad deal" where he is ultimatively on the shorter end, is just how it has to be in his mind.

Charm-n-Shoot just means that he focuses on Social Talents and Skills and everything secondary (and the discipline celerity) are focused to make him a really good shooter so he has one exceptional skill to fall back on if words don't work.

As to being Invictus, I as a player am more used to playing Scholarly and Physical Characters, playing the Status, Politics and Social game (if he doesn't become a ghoul) is supposed to bring me out of my comfort zone and give me something interesting to work on and improve as a player.

Before he became a vampire or a ghoul he was probably of "civic nobility" from a rich family which allowed him to spend a lot on his passion which was the shooting range and gave him the confidence to assert himself in social situations.
Obviously a rich person from a wealthy family was a pretty good retainer to have/Is someone usefull to become the Sire of especially if you can make use of his resources.
(If he is an Invictus it would align with his ideas of having had to work for his right to rule even overcoming the "born nobility" in status and power just by making the right decisions)

But I mentioned that he had to flee, he probably was unable to take everything with him he had back in (I am currently considering: ) Spain, Germany or the Netherlands.
He had to leave because of some sort uprising against the local invictus, which killed his Sire or Revenant and drew some negative attention to him.

So I am not sure if he would arrive as an Invictus. If he is a Vampire and he would arrive as an Invictus, I could imagine him having asked beforehand for "political Asylum" which sounds a bit absurd I guess.
Is political asylum a possible proposition with the Invictus here, can someone confirm or deny that idea?
Also if someone would like to try the Revenant/Ghoul combo with me I think this question would be obsolete, but I figure this post might give a lot of insight into my character, so I am very interested if someone wants to make this investment for me.

[Seryna]

I do want to mention a few things so that it is clear now that I have done some reading on how Ghouls worked in the past. The Ghoul is not a full Chargen character and it does not earn XP. There are no special plot lines for the ghoul.
I do want you, Samoht, to be aware that there will be situations where your character is not only not included, but not even able to speak to those present. Characters who will not speak to your character will be common. You are going to be playing a sub class, to be clear. You are the only one, so unlike other vampires, you don't have a kin to commiserate with. This is by design, so don't expect there to be more than say, 2 ghouls at any given time.
The Regnant does need to pay a 6 dot xp cost for the ghoul.
I do suggest speaking with one another on your play style, your activity, your expectations. The easiest way for me to say this, is that the Ghoul is not an easy thing to play. Ghouls are supernaturally bound to serve, and it is a cruel design. To be honest, it would likely be easier to work together on making Samoht's character Edward's Childe than a ghoul.

[Samoht]

White and me talked on discord a bit about all of these things.

And like I said I am aware that the character is basically lowest of the low as a ghoul, he would be tagging along for the most part and most of his interactions would require the ghoul to ask Edward to negotiate for him to be ableto come along for quite a few things.

But since he is a capable human I could imagine him picking up on stuff and asking Edward to make it possible for him to tag along somewhere where his Regnant isn't another one of the other Vampires present. Obviously he is aware of his standing as not really being someone worth thinking about for most Vampires at the start, but that's part of what can make this character concept so interesting.

What I didn't expect is that he wouldn't be able to gain XP at all, part of what makes this Ghoul thing so interesting for me is that he could reach the very peak of what a human is capable of to a point where supernaturals would have to at least recognize how he could be of help.

That actually might be a dealbreaker for me, if he can't raise his merits, attributes or skills one of the primary points of interested for me, of him improving to become a human worth recognising would be kind of moot.


We also talked about the idea of the character coming as a ghoul and being Embraced by Edward, (after we saw your post yesterday),
if that's the only way to have a character that can actually gain exp, then I think I'd almost have to go for that option.

For today, I wanted to stat out both options on a sheet of paper for myself, as a full blown vampire and as a ghoul. (So not on the submission form yet)
In case there is some way to make the Ghoul work.

So is there really absolutely no progression a Ghoul has with the rules in here? (Aside from roleplayed social interactions)

[Seryna]

It's very possible that there won't be situations where others see ghouls as someone that they want to come along. I don't see many situations where Ghoul would be welcome to come along- he's an extension of Edward. He might quietly sit through a meeting, or be sent to deliver a message. That's likely the extent of how he interacts with others.
It's possible that you and White would be posting 1 on 1 for most of your scenes. I don't see this as being very interesting for you.

This is a vampire venue, not a ghoul venue. Ghouls are merits on a sheet that the regnant posts for. There are a few characters with ghouls- they are written for by the player who purchased the merit.
It's also an expensive merit - 6 dots.
Have you read over the wiki page I linked, or read the ghoul book?

There is no progression for the ghoul.
When writing on the paper, remember he doesn't start with full character gen level.
It's about 10 xp less than mortal.

[Samoht]

I read both the description in the regular Vampire creation that is advised everywhere and the Ghoul Specific one you linked as well.

I reread it while writing this, to make sure I remembered correctly, but the no progression clause wasn't mentioned in the ghoul specific wiki page (http://nwod.org/wiki/index.php/Ghoul) you mentioned (maybe I still didn't see it after looking for it multiple times). Also it mentions a lot about a ghoul being stronger than the average human (reflected by 1 additional attribute dot) even being able to use disciplines (in a very limited capacity on a fairly low level).


As to if he is able to do things with the Vampires in this Venue, thats very likely up to the individual characters, but I see the point you make, it's very likely that some to most Vampires just flat out deny any involvement in any of their actions with a ghoul, which is fine and the characters choice to make.
You know who the characters playing are so if you don't see that happening that's good enough for me.


The wiki makes it sound like being a ghoul is fine and a possible choice since 2016 and I would have liked to try that out since there is rarely an opportunity to play a ghoul as a PC despite them often being fairly memorable characters in the games I have played in the past, so I am kinda sad about that not being a real option.


But that doesn't matter then I guess.
Instead I would have to wonder about the other two options:
If he arrived as a desperate ghoul and has been embraced by Edward would that option also require some sort of merit to be bought?

Or if he was a Vampire before he arrived here, I posited a question into the spoiler section in a message a while back, where I explained that he had to flee his initial place in the Netherlands.
That option is also on the table now, so I am going to repost that question:

So I am not sure if he would arrive as an Invictus. If he is a Vampire and he would arrive as an Invictus, I could imagine him having asked beforehand for "political Asylum" which sounds a bit absurd I guess.
Is political asylum a possible proposition with the Invictus here, can someone confirm or deny that idea?

(I tend to mark my questions in bold OOC, since my posts tend to get quite long and I feel like that makes it easier to find them again. Is that alright, or should I stop doing that?)

[Seryna]

Alright, so you understand the mechanics of Ghouls. The book goes into the nature of ghouls in great detail, and can get into areas that are uncomfortable with the second class citizen aspect.
It is an - option- that is seldom used. To be honest, I have never played with a PC Ghoul here. If your character will see any interaction with other characters is up for the other writers. I strongly advise playing as a Vampire. It is a venue designed for Vampires.

If he arrived as a desperate ghoul and has been embraced by Edward would that option also require some sort of merit to be bought?

It depends. Rogue ghouls are illegal. As in likely to be destroyed illegal.
If he arrived and Edward took him in to limit the Potential Breach of a rogue ghoul, Edward would inform the Prince and entreat the Prince for permission to Embrace. This is quite the undertaking for Edward, who will have to convince for the right to Embrace. Then he has to pay the willpower to Embrace your character.
Then he has to give tutelage for your character. There's no Fresh off the Boats, so he would have to ensure your character know the rules and proper way to conduct themselves.

You can always choose option B to have an 'in' with Edward.
You can be a co - sanginous offspring of Edward's Sire, Embraced elswhere. Your character can come to get out of their Sire's thumb and have someone to vouch for them. You can arrive with the knowledge required, having been released from the Sire's Hospitality.

So I am not sure if he would arrive as an Invictus. If he is a Vampire and he would arrive as an Invictus, I could imagine him having asked beforehand for "political Asylum" which sounds a bit absurd I guess.
Is political asylum a possible proposition with the Invictus here, can someone confirm or deny that idea?

You simply send a letter explaining that they are Invictus and arriving in town to the head of the Invictus, Alder Judex Twist, Duchess and Judex of Sacramento. This way they can recieve information. Like so: http://nwod.org/forum/showthread.php...t-from-Jennife
I recommend the letter as it allows the Invictus here to inform parties that the person arriving is a Kindred of Qaulity and not an unknown quality.
The bold is fine

[Seryna]

So... as for PC Ghouls are concerned. They would need to have a relation to a current active vampire. That player would need to purchase a 5 dot ghoul.

Also, that XP would not be refundable if the ghoul player drops. The pc ghoul would then because a npc ghoul similar to Twist's Kalos.

Also there is a HUGE commitment being made between Players of a Regnant and Ghoul. Such that in the 10 years of the site, I have never seen it done successfully, where the ghoul player didn't end up feeling left out, bored, or unhappy, and the ghoul ends up being dropped.

I do want to bring up what has happened in the past, and why I have mentioned it.

[aliaro]

Hello, everybody.
I've been skirting the forum for a few days and want to throw a concept in here to see if it will be playable or I should go back to lurking and thinking.

Short of it, a Daeva whose main talent, traid (and a perverse hobby) is to glean secrets from people. She's using her charms and Majesty for this mainly. I'm thinking of somebody who is contracted on case-to-case basis by mortal criminals (and occasional Kindred) to gently suss out information the target wants to hide. It could be checking if the new member of the gang is a cop undercover, or if somebody been getting their fingers in their bosses coffins, or even charming out some trade secrets for more upscale crowd in companies and such. All of this for cases where brute force is either unadvisable or even have failed already. For Kindred I was thinking about, either also contracted by individuals to scout some information from rivals, screen for possible treachery, etc, or even some kind of truth diviners for a Prince/Primogen/Priscus for suspected criminals. Or both.

I'm also curious about some matters for backstory purposes.
1) Is there any particular reason needed to relocate to Sacramento to start the game? Or could it be as simple as wanting a greener pastures, boredom, etc.
2) How much in demand are translators for Kindred? Is it a viable side (or even main) source of income or nah? More curious about spoken interpreters that work with negotiations, foreign guests and the like than written translations here, but both would go, honestly.
3) Is it permissible to use they/them pronouns in roleplay or only binary once go?

[Saber Sloth]

For the questions,

1) any reason is good, you can make the backstory as (un)complicated as you like.

2) Not too sure, it's a requirement that Kindred know English to play so there's no instances where Kindred cannot communicate with each other, but translators might be needed in plots, depending. And you can always use Glimpses to do translating work.

3) You can use whatever pronouns you like Inclusivity is a go!



But for play, I think Vampire is currently on a Wait List, you'd have to ask Seryna before submitting a character. But I don't see anything wrong with the concept!