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  1. #21
    P
    Papilio

    A simple nod to Sophia, as she clarified. There were some students here that might appeal. At the topic on brushes with death...

    ...If she only knew. "It is... A small wonder to me, that our lives- short as they may seem- can carry such a propensity for change." Some far more than others.

    Ms. Greene's views were similar to his own. "I have less experience in blendings of styles, though I can see the merit in it... patterns can be made from just about anything, even something that at a glance may not seem symmetrical?" He ventured, wondering if that was what she meant.

    Shodan didn't seem to carry many connections in these fields- perhaps he wished to find a place to start?

    Whatever the case, his view wasn't at all uncommon in Jean's experience. "I am more in agreement with Ms. Greene here. Art certainly can be made to be provocative, and for that reason it is of great importance. However, not every piece must be made to challenge." Jean didn't see it as the sole purpose. "Art that is beautiful can provoke, and art that provokes can be beautiful. Some prefer the former, others the latter, but both are still art. Preference merely comes down to the beholder." His own view on it. Ms. Greene perhaps put it better. She was proving to be enjoyable company- now the Mastigos definitely wished to thanks her friends; perhaps even meet them, if they were as capable as she.

    Regardless of his views, another nod as Papilio was in great agreement with Sophia- compared to everything else the Mastigos had to contend with, discussions about the merits of artistic styles were quite tame. "I am glad this event allowed us the opportunity, then."

  2. #22
    S
    Shodan

    Oh yeah, even if he's going to agree with Sophia on nothing else tonight, he can get behind the implied statement that debates are in short supply these days "That's because with art it's hard to pretend you know your onions when you don't. Television and the Internet do have a way of multiplying experts on everything else, though" He'd know. He was one of them.

    I can understand why you might feel that way.


    What is this, therapy? A smug attempt at forging what ought to feel like a genuine connection, while at the same time establishing dominance? In that moment, Lenore reminded Shodan why exactly he mostly avoids events like that. Still, it was good practice for some verbal fencing.

    "First of all, I think someone ate that banana, so at least some good came out of it - people really do need more potassium in their lives. But the point is that you are making it sound like the overconceptualized bullshit and Bob Ross copycats are equal in number, when we all know that's simply not the case" Lenore wasn't the only one that knew her way around a presumptuous argument. Of course the Obrimos didn't know that, it's not like he could cite a statistic or anything, but it sounded believable enough not to spark immediate alarm "And, while bananas on walls might be poor art, the other... extreme of the spectrum, as you say, is no art at all. Just good craftsmanship - like I could fashion you a solid car or a coffe table, but I'm not about to start putting it in galleries" Somehow it was clear to everyone with everyday objects, but suddenly the line became blurry with paintings and sculptures. Shodan never quite understood why.

    "But you're right - it's better than blank walls. And he" A brief look to Papilio "is right as well: eye of the beholder and all that. It might be a work thing for me, too: if a line of code does nothing, it's a nuisance at best and an invitation for bugs at worts. And everyone hates bugs" Digital and literal.

    This little exchange made him suddenly aware that he's ignored Papilio and Sophia almost entirely. Not that he felt bad - the pair has plenty of options, from disengaging to discuss purchases, to jumping on the 'style vs. substance' bandwagon to steering the conversation.

  3. #23
    Alessandra's Avatar
    Presence
    (Commanding)
    Striking Looks
    (Tattooed Beauty)
    Blood Potency(+1)
    Status
    (Criminals)
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    (Gabriel)
    First thing you will notice about Ale is the abundance of her tattoos. They go from her face all the way to her feet, and not much is left bare. The second thing? Her strong Italian accent.

    Known as Sofia De Luca

    Gabriel, Ghoul
    Cain, Hell Hound
    Alessandra Scenes
     -2 Vitae for Blush of Life and Drink, 
     
     

    +1
    SL
    4
    PRE

    Sculptures. Not something she had a whole lot of experience with. But, she was Italian, and they had numerous ones back home. “I had an employee bring an ice sculpture to a business meeting last year. Was quite impressive, with the details, and I’ve never had someone do that.” A quite chuckle. “But there are more, classical, pieces that are enjoyable. Especially to see in person. I’ve always admired the sheer amount of effort the artist has to put in.” more patience then she had.

    A nod, “Well said. It’s part of the reason I’ve begun to display my collection at work. I not only want people to see the pieces I enjoy, but I want them to look at them and discuss them. It also lets me know who can hold a civilized and intelligent discussion and who cannot. And thus far, I think it’d be fun to discuss art with you.” She was being honest. Lenora was proven to not only be well spoken, but intelligent as well.

    “I find it amazing how there can be people who resist those changes. Ignoring the fact that change is necessary to advance.” Kindred knew this better than most. They constantly had to change and adapt to the times.

    Smirking, “Oh, isn’t that the truth! Doesn’t stop them though. They do a quick look up on the internet and suddenly they know everything about art.” A small shake of her head, “But it is fun.” She’d never claim to be an art expert.

    “The problem I saw with the whole banana thing is that it was people with more money than common sense. Dropping money on something that is perishable, as well as easy to recreate, is just ridiculous to me. But, what isn’t art to one, is the Mona Lisa to another. These days we are seeing quite a few people who buy something because social media has made it famous.” A shrug, “To each their own I suppose.” But not something she would drop money on. “Though I personally see my car as a piece of art. But, that’s a different topic.” A sly smile offered.

    “Not only bugs, but fruit flies. Those little shits are a pain to get rid of.” And she was glad she no longer had to worry about that.
    Alessandra Antinori │BP 6│Strong Italian Accent

  4. #24
    Lenora's Avatar

    Lenora Black | Public: Lenore Greene
    New Identity
    (Lenore Greene)
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    (Comely)
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    (Winsome)
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    (Judicial)
    Allies
    (Culture)
    Lenora

    +1
    SL
    3
    PRE

    Another pleased smile is granted to Jean as he backs up her point view. The greeter's position on the matter only served to bolster Lenora's ego. Considering her "family", it was already quite considerable and her quiet pride when the support is granted is not altogether subtle.

    At Adam's words, Lenora did exactly what the man likely expected. She smirked, a smug and amused expression spreading across her features as he laid out his opposition. Lenora was not angry, of course. The man had already admitted that he was a novice, but he wanted a debate. Fine.

    "On the contrary, considering the rise of commercialism, I think the copycats and commercially driven artists far outweigh those who overconceptualize as well as those who conceptualize within more... acceptable parameters. It makes them more marketable. People tend to think with their eyes first. Thus the need to ensure a given product or service is aesthetically pleasing in its imagery and portrayal is paramount," Lenora replies, "As for automobiles and furniture, there are examples of both in galleries, though I agree that is not the place for them."

    "Consider this," she continues, "some forms of art cannot be experienced to their fullest extent within the confines of a gallery. For example, a classic automobile is a beautiful thing, but until you see it in action, you cannot take in the creative genius of its construction, the artful nature of its design, or experience the thrill of its acceleration. The experience is incomplete when it cannot be utilized in the manner it was meant to be. Even your outfit's merit as a work of art can be explained in this way. Fashion is not uncommon in galleries, but its hardly the best way to experience it. You'll be able to admire the design, certainly, but the rest of the experience is dreadfully lacking until you feel the touch of the fabric and the confidence or sense of identity it affords you."

    At the words related to the 'eye of the beholder', Lenora would grant a nod of agreement.

    "On that we agree at least," she offers, "Though you bring up an interesting point. The lens by which we observe art is built from many factors. You choose not to see certain things, like furniture, as art because they are not possessive of the qualities your lens has come to expect from artwork. In the same vein, I consider the taped banana as a poor form of art for the same reasons, although I do not denounce its place entirely. My point being that misconceptions with art often begin with the viewer."

    Finally, a look to Sophia and a smile.

    "I am touched by your interest, Sophia," she offers, "Given my recent move here, outings are not as commonplace as they were in Philadelphia. My friends here are often busy with their own projects, but it is my good fortune to find my time blissfully free these days. I'm certain we could arrange an outing whenever you have the time."

  5. #25
    P
    Papilio

    When Papilio imagined what a Free Council would be like, Shodan's behavior would likely be near the top of the list. Was that a stereotype fulfilling itself? Or was Papilio's image of them somewhat slanted? Regardless, his fellow mage had plenty to say- such was the manner of their friendly discussion.

    "I can understand, perhaps, that such pieces serve as a means to change how we see art. Yet when that desire to change becomes an art style, is the message still received? In a sense... One could say that the nailed banana, then, is no different to the tacky wallpaper- commoditized to seem appealing to a crowd. When 'making a statement' becomes fashionable... Well, what statement does that make?" How many critics here, perhaps some professionals in their field, had flit between such pieces? How many of those pieces became famous merely to fill a fad? What did that say about the culture as a whole? "What you do not consider art at all... Well, eye of the beholder." Papilio disagreed entirely of course, but he wasn't going to be as confrontational on the matter.

    Besides, Sophia and Ms. Greene had pretty much hit the nail on the banana regarding Papilio's own view on the rather strange demonstration such pieces provided. And at Sophia's admiration of ice sculptures and other painstaking pieces, the Mastigos saw room to add more on those factors that affect perception. "A common theme I can find in the creation of some Art pieces- the time one is willing to put into their creations. With Deco, so many variants and patterns can be tested until a desired symmetry can be made, until it... Resonates." A little handwave around the room, to a few pieces showing patterned designs. Perhaps a mild echo for dramatic effect, if one were listening closely.

    "And to that end... Cars, sculptures, books, city designs, even the rise and fall of empires and powers... All could be considered a work of art, swaths of history and automobile components comparable to the brush of paints on canvas. That is just another factor with which to behold them." The Mastigos doubted there were many people that would look upon the Pentagram's history as a work of art, though that lens could certainly give a change in perspective.

    Ms. Greene and Sophia seemed to be getting along quite well- indeed, many in the gallery would likely form deeper connections that extended outside the charity. It should not have been a surprise; such events could attract many likeminded people. "You said you came from Philadelphia, Ms. Greene?" The city's name rolled uncomfortably off the tongue. "I have never been. Would you recommend a visit there?" The discussion on art was proving enjoyable, but the Mastigos believed creating an exit would be courteous- or a short reprieve, if nothing else. Would Ms. Greene and Papilio become friends after tonight? He hadn't expected to make personal connections here.

  6. #26
    S
    Shodan

    "That's probably a good thing, in the big picture" He says to Sophia's comment on overspending on fads and fashions "Spending keeps the economy rolling. Besides, in a broader sense, I don't care if Jeff Bezos, greedy bastard that he is, understands a thing about space travel, as long as he showers the big bucks on it" The one good thing about corporations and the sickeningly rich is that it's now 'in' to donate to research and charities... very much like this one. It'll save the Libertines some work before their day comes "What I'm trying to say is that those with more money than common sense might help push the envelope - in art, science or politics - and don't even realize it" Until it's too late for them.

    Not many consider their car a piece of art. Which is why Shodan appears slightly surprised when Sophia admits that she does "What're you driving?" Or, perhaps more accurately: what does your chauffeur drive? Hopefully it's not some dime-a-dozen limo.

    And now for the main course. Shodan took Lenore's expression as nothing short of patronizing, and why wouldn't she be? Clearly he's trespassing on her hunting territory. That is not to say he'll give up easily, though, even if he resolves to hold some of the venom. Papilio's been putting work in this thing, Shodan sees no point in spoiling it too much.

    "Isn't that what I said?" His face is completely blank, save for the corners of his mouth, twitching slightly in a suppressed smile. The point he was trying to make was exactly that: not all extremes of the spectrum were created equal in number, and the wallpaper's definitely more common "That's certainly what I meant. In any case, if I were to construct some definition, I'll say this: art is when an item has some other use beyond the practical. Most cars are used to get me from point A to point B. Most tables are only good to put plates on them. Most clothes do nothing but protect you from weather" And so on, the principle was the same.

    A weird look is given to the Mastigos "The rise and... now, my friend, I think you're stretching it a bit. I mean, sure, we could devise some concept that includes all of the things you mentioned into a single definition, but it'd be like..." He struggles to find the right comparison before lighting up "... have you seen 'The Fly'?"

  7. #27
    Alessandra's Avatar
    Presence
    (Commanding)
    Striking Looks
    (Tattooed Beauty)
    Blood Potency(+1)
    Status
    (Criminals)
    Retainer
    (Gabriel)
    First thing you will notice about Ale is the abundance of her tattoos. They go from her face all the way to her feet, and not much is left bare. The second thing? Her strong Italian accent.

    Known as Sofia De Luca

    Gabriel, Ghoul
    Cain, Hell Hound
    Alessandra Scenes
     -2 Vitae for Blush of Life and Drink, 
     
     

    +1
    SL
    4
    PRE

    This was turning into a very interesting evening. Though the topic wasn’t one she could really offer much insight on.

    “Humans are visual creatures. I’ve read somewhere that a good portion of our brains are devoted to processing visual information. Visuals are also processed quicker then texts, so it makes sense for someone to be drawn to, or purchase, something that is visually pleasing to them.” When you were undead, and had been around as long as she had been, you read a lot. Some info retains, some doesn’t.

    A smile to Lenora, “I’ve decided to make it a point to venture out more and not always be at work. So making the time isn’t an issue. And given how much I’ve enjoyed listening to you thus far,” because it could change, “I expect to have time very soon.” This was an intelligent one. Maybe a dangerous one.

    More art talk. Which made sense, art showing, and all that. But it was quickly boring the Savage. Though she does listen with interest to the back and forth. But she had nothing to add. She just knew what she liked.

    Then it moves to where Lenora was from. And she was curious to the Lords response.

    Smirking, “Well, I suppose there are worse things to spend ones money on than art. Or space travel. And those willing to spend such large amounts, help draw attention, or as you say, pushing the envelope. Which is a good thing.” She had money, but she didn’t like spending it on stupid things.

    “A 1970 Ford Gran Torino GT. You know much about cars?” he didn’t strike her as a car guy.

    He wasn’t wrong in his statement, “I have to admit, I never saw fashion as art.” A shrug, “I’m open to having my opinion changed. But I’ve yet to hear an argument that works for me.” Clothes were clothes. Some were expensive because of the label, but they all did the same thing in her mind. "Same with my car, I don't see it being art. Sure, it turns heads and is in perfect condition. But I'd hardly qualify it as art."
    Alessandra Antinori │BP 6│Strong Italian Accent

  8. #28
    Lenora's Avatar

    Lenora Black | Public: Lenore Greene
    New Identity
    (Lenore Greene)
    Striking Looks
    (Comely)
    Presence
    (Winsome)
    Allies
    (Judicial)
    Allies
    (Culture)
    Lenora

    +1
    SL
    3
    PRE

    Lenora actually chuckles at Adam's words regarding wealth and detachment from common sense. In any other circumstance, she would have considered the statement an unintentional jab at herself and other members of society, but then again Adam had already proving himself clever. She doubted very much that the words were spoken without the intent to use her as an example. As a result, she offered the man nothing and ignored the issue.

    Jean's comment on the annals of history as an art is met with a confused expression from Lenora, though she still grants the man a smile.

    "I must admit that I do not wholly agree with you,"
    she says, "History and art, while both important and occasionally intertwined, are both quite different in my view."

    Her attention back to Adam, the smirk returned.

    "You're meaning was unclear, though perhaps the fault was my interpretation. I appreciate your clarification,"
    she said, "Art, however, is quite practical. The purpose of most paintings and sculptures are to fill space. Ideally, they'll create a certain ambiance and image, as I had already mentioned, but most do not resonate deeply enough to convey complex meaning."

    She affords the outsider a moment to take in her words.

    A nod is granted to Sophia as she chimes in.

    "More than fair,"
    she says, "As we've discussed, we all look through a different lens."

    A glance back to Adam.

    "As such, it seems we will need to agree to disagree, although I'll admit I've enjoyed our discourse, Adam,"
    she offers, the tone sincere enough for the proud woman, "It is refreshing exploring the opinion of someone who resides outside the academic study of art or its practices."

    An olive branch of a sort. Lenora was willing to put the matter aside. The line between debate and argument was rather thin and it was clear neither would sway the other, so what was the point?

  9. #29
    P
    Papilio

    Shodan's view on some aspects of the world was certainly ah... Bold? There was a better word in the Mastigos' mind, though he couldn't quite put it concretely. Regardless, his view was welcome. "I am sure several of the students participating here today might share some of your views." Not spoken in a demeaning manner- rather, an attempt to show Shodan that he might find kindred spirits beyond Papilio tonight.

    At the disagreements, Papilio gave a slight shrug. No sense souring the mood. "Different perspectives then- never unwelcome. Different perspectives lead to new developments." Papilio could certainly defend his position to death, of course. Or, to "Death" around certain company. Maybe some other day he might? It could make for an interesting occasion to meet back up with some members of this grouping.

    Towards Sophia, the bit regarding humans and visual stimuli resonated a bit more with the Mastigos... After all, every Arcana possessed the means to "see" the world differently- and while such spells certainly could apply to any senses, that most people utilized them through sight led down some intriguing paths. Perhaps a paper on the topic might intrigue a Mysterium library? "it is an intriguing thought." Whether in response to Sophia or his own formulations was debatable at the moment. As per the talk of cars, Papilio was very much unqualified to add more.

    Ms. Greene did not yet answer where she had come from... Which peeved the organizer just slightly, though he did not repeat the request- some people would rather leave the past behind, or not be reminded of it at any rate. Jean could understand that. "Ah- while I have you here. I do not suppose you all would have any suggestions for future events, or criticisms of this one? It is my first big event in this city, and I am constantly looking for ways to improve."

  10. #30
    S
    Shodan

    Aw, how sweet is the chuckle Lenore grants him. Yes, 'grant' sounds like an appropriate word. Shodan half-expects a pat on the back that, somehow, never comes. And moments later, he is functionally dismissed. The audience with Her Royal Highness has concluded "Sure, anytime. Thanks for wanting to spar with me" He offers the woman a smile and, perhaps surprisingly, it is a hundred percent sincere. Ms. Greene might be an upper-class, slightly jaded and far more polite than the Prime Mover is comfortable with, but at least she didn't blow him off, like most people here definitely would.

    Besides, it's not like Shodan himself is textbook precariat.

    At the mention of Ford Torino Shodan looks impressed, then changes into the look of a man who cannot possibly be surprised by anything around the topic "Design influenced by supersonic aircraft and the coke bottle styling, of all things. Massive grill, 60 miles per hour in six seconds. Not the top performance model - for that, you want Cobra - but definitely the most luxurious. Futuristic in its time, if a bit too vintage for my taste right now" And there was the small problem that he couldn't afford it, not right now. He shrugs "I'm a machine enthusiast" He offers by way of explanation "And cars combine the two things I like most about them: functionality and moving forward" Indeed, Sophia had style that seemed cohesive. So cohesive, in fact, that the Obrimos chooses to ignore how she contradicted herself in the span of a few minutes.

    When Papilio polls their opinions on events present and future, Shodan employs a slightly confused look, like he's struggling to find a cohesive answer "You won't find me complaining. I mean, this thing attracted people who drive cool cars and hold intelligent conversation" I must admit there are some smart people even among the intelligentsia... "So obviously, you're doing something right. But if you... or whoever is doling out the monies here would do a new media art expo or something, I'd buy all of them tickets" Then get a drone and spray them all over town. Take that, technological obscurantism!

      2 successes
    Date Action Roll Result
    2020-01-09 02:18:03 Shodan rolls 8 to Conjure car trivia (Int + Crafts) (10 Again) 10, 4, 9, 6, 3, 3, 2, 5, 4 2 successes

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