Political Savages

[Jacque]

Jacque listens to the words the young looking savage had to share. He figured Prosper knew the answers to the questions and leaped over to his final thoughts first, "What would have been proper forethought then? Let's use the recent issue your Whip brought up. From my vantage point I could have either ignored it, submitted to a perspective I did not agree with or what I attempted to do: converse to try and understand things from his eyes."

"As you mentioned, we all have a very diverse range of histories that mold us with the instincts we have today. Soft skills from my mortal life certainly don't always apply well to Kindred affairs." They've done well enough to capture the interest of the Harpy and the Prince, but have done next to nothing to quell animosities.

[Garrett Prosper]

His brow pinches at the request, being unable to answer with much accuracy when Jacque offered no perspective to come from. "For myself? I gauged what kind of individual Madcap was off the bat, as they put it. He mentioned his bloodline, being one of the original Childre, and did not filter his words with any sense of decorum within Elysium. Basic Savage profile," he shrugged. "It would be a mistake to conclude he was acting in a such a manner out of disrespect, as his lineage is literally bred to fight oppressive systems. Gangrel that only answer to the strong, and nomadic with their territory. They are also subject to a deeper anger than you can imagine. Also, with the perspective of age I could conclude he fought alongside Allied forces," he would have to talk to him about that, mostly just to thank him.

"So, you have a gruff soldier of fortune who has chosen to submit himself to the Dragon. That is an interesting take: his family rejects covenants, so he is with us for a reason. You can already anticipate his philosophy with these factors. With the strength of his blood, he is sniffing for weakness the second your come into his periphery. This is where you start picking your battles and where you are willing to secure yourself in the pecking order? If you cannot back it up with raw strength, cunning, or alliances, then you take the L." He didn't feel like explaining things further in that respect, he had literally three separate Kindred weigh the situation. "So, if you do not wish to secure someone like Madcap, or Arturo Garcia as an ally. You simply do not. I do not...comprehend why you continued trying to relate to aggressive soldiers and try and step to their Beasts. The argument stops mattering when you lack the power. Maybe that is because I see things from the perspective of my Clan," he offered. Lord were insane about their pride, sometimes. Garcia was willing to wager his life on a slight to his honour. "You request conversation, and they explain they are beyond it. Words do not stop a knife, or else the Kindred would never have to worry about our Beast beyond mild discomfort. Prestation would hold no meaning, which Harpy Simmons literally employed me to begin pushing to educate the Court in her absence." Apparently she didn't loop in her Whip. The Ventrue were so fractured at this point, no wonder Thomas and Arturo ignored his title: to them it might as well be self appointed.

"As for...skills? A monster does not care about debate unless they wish to engage it for their own interest, Jack," Prosper chuckled, "Seriously. Take it from someone who worked as a negotiator in a war zone."

[Jacque]

Jacque swirls the martini, listening to Garrett's words. He takes a sip before responding, "Someone as intelligent as you also must surely realize that there is a limit to even that behavior. Sure, I did not take it as disrespect... initially. I found it quite desirable for him to be blunt about his perspectives, especially when it could expedite that understanding I sought. As the conversation progressed though.." he shook his head. He was there, he didn't need a recap.

He taps the table, "If it were so simple. They act like they are agreeing to converse, and then don't participate. It would have been far simpler for Madcap to just decline to talk because it is clear in hindsight that all he wanted was prestation. I offered prestation to your Grand Wyrm on the one condition that everyone would be held to the same standard. If that's so offensive..." he waves his hand dismissively, "To hell with him."

"Now, if he felt that I was hard-lined against the words he spoke that night to the Harpy. That would have been another matter entirely. Clearly that wasn't the case or I'm sure he would have said as much." he shrugged his shoulders.

Sharing in the chuckle, "Of course." He couldn't fault anyone for playing to their strengths, as crude as they were. His cold eyes resting on Garrett, "Speaking of which, what interest of yours has brought you here with me tonight?"

​

For expediency I've rolled to detect deception/lies in your next post.

  4 successes

Date		Action		Roll		Result
2019-06-23 23:23:46		Jacque rolls 6 to detect lies/deception (WIT+SUB) (10 Again)		10, 2, 3, 9, 1, 9, 9		4 successes

[Garrett Prosper]

"Which behaviour? The aggressive nature or your passive aggressive pursuits?" he cocked his head. "You are correct in the assessment that aggressive Kindred either continue getting stronger, or die. It is the way of things; I always recommend sleeping it off. Our existence is not believed to be sustainable, hence the various political sects. Take your pick: do you fight it with the Dragons? Do you control it via militant decorum with the Invictus? Do you weaponize it like the Lance? Or do you revel in it as a process of spiritual evolution, like the Crone? Carthians are experimenting with an answer, deciding the current spread is not enough."

He lets the Lord vent the lack of understanding, offering a small shrug. "Did he not? You put him in a position that if he rejected your presence, he could have been held as an example that the Dragon Gangrel are unruly, just like April. The Herald wished to speak, so he offered an exchange in an environment where he felt secure from Kindred mechanisms. The Gangrel Priscus was appointed for their understanding of political situations, and the Keeper of Elysium is an even tempered cousin. He told you his boundaries, you tried to work around them and failed. It is that simple. There is no right or wrong, there is simply do you have the position to back your opinion and get what you want."

At Jacque's earnest question, he rests his chin in his hand, "First, to understand your own psychology and why you continue having these issues with other Kindred. I am not confident you have the support to better your social maneuvering in a yes-man echo chamber, like with Simmons being enabled in her own mistakes. I am a pack animal, Jack. I get nervous when powers that be start shitting the bed. My pack is ready to drop you, and I am here to figure out what we are going to do about that. However, I respect your feelings and I am going about it by allowing you to inform me of your motives. Plus I like the company," he grinned sharply.

Prosper is being very blunt. From his perspective, he is not obfuscating the truth other than nest Clan tension to avoid being rude.

[Jacque]

"Please..." he smirked at the implication of passive aggressiveness. "I demonstrated that with my cousin, yes, but since then nobody else has experienced anything even close to the sort."

"Considering the stark difference in the two situations I was rather passive to offer a conversation seeking understanding. No sooner than me coming down the stairs did I hear him running his mouth about me. His boundaries were lost somewhere between trying to set the stage with a poor image of me, offer to sell kind public words about me and finally trying to stuff words I did not say in my mouth so that he could be vindicated in his subsequent attempts at intimidating posturing." He shrugged his shoulders, "Perhaps I should have moved along earlier considering the amount of effort it was taking just for him to hear what I was actually saying. He did keep dropping breadcrumbs of reasonable thought, so I was tempted to also put in the elbow grease if something good could come the conversation."

Jacque twists the stem of the glass between his fingers, his eyes watching the blossom as Garrett answers. Until....then. He pauses what had been a consistent tic, then leans back in his seat to see nothing but honesty coming from his companion. Well no shit.

The mood is instantly lifted as the final quip floats from the savage's lips, responded by a soft chuckle, "Well, that rather seems excessive but I take it you approve of this course of action? Or rather, would approve?" The fact that he's here tonight sharing it with him freely meant there was likely an underlying desire to resolve matters without violence.

[Garrett Prosper]

"Okay, so lets say Madcap was being a twat. If you have an issue with that, you could have confronted him...though I am not confident that would have worked in your favour. I think he would have laughed at you and accepted your challenge for dominance the old fashioned way," Prosper said, thinking. "So, if it was stinging that badly, you could have spoken with the Keeper on terms of decorum, or even myself if Madcap treated you a level of disrespect that demanded satisfaction. He needs to learn to catch his tongue, or someone is going to tear it out," he laughs.

"From the options we have been presented, it is clear you and Madcap will not come to an understanding. You tried to achieve a working relationship in the manner that you understand. He feels his honour was violated, and will accept prestation. He will still accept prestation, as he feels it is reasonable for someone with more patience to try to attempt to bridge the gap. Or, if you feel that is too much of a violation of your own morals, your nights may become a little less safe and I walk away knowing I did my part. I will simply seek out the assistance of your own Clansmen if we are unable to come to an accord.

Mable also feels that your open negotiations with her decision was condescending in nature. I felt you turning to the Sheriff and requesting assistance over the Keeper, as if the Law was being violated, was insulting to all three of us. I also feel that allowing another Daeva to insert himself into a discussion that was between the Ventrue and the Gangrel, while ignoring my presence of any import, was also insulting. I am not sure if he was trying to mess with you, or see if he was going to get my own attention for his own amusement," he drums his nails along the edge of the table, smiling to himself before looking to Jack. "You do not know much about my Clan, do you?"

[Jacque]

He shrugged his shoulders in response to the first words, "So what you're saying is either ignore it or address it with relevant leaders but stop trying to address such matters on our own for a more desirable outcome?"


"That's quite the laundry list of offenses. Am I to assume that you perceive absolutely no offenses occurring from your Clan against me or are you simply waiting for me to bring them up?" he patiently awaited the answer as he eyed Garrett's full glass. "Don't care for Gin?"

[Garrett Prosper]

Prosper shakes his head, "Hm? No. Like I said, you tried to address it between yourself and the initial party. Neither of you could come to an agreement, in Kindred culture this either leads to simmering egos or an escalation, depending on how much the vampire cares. It is a free country, Jack, you can tell Clan Gangrel to fuck off. I cannot exactly offer you options when you did not answer my questions, so I could get a scrap of where you are coming from. I hit walls myself due to a vast difference in experience, but it is in my nature to tweak dynamics within the confines of the limits presented to prevent lasting violence."

At Jacque's subtle request to speak on his own issue, Garrett spread his hands. "You may; I did not see this as an 'official' negotiation or I would be bickering with Priscus Simmons. I am speaking on behalf of my cousins, because my first instinct is not to tear into you, and they are confident I can handle myself in talks, so to speak." He blinked to the drink: he had taken a swig, it was true that it was unusual for him not to drain a glass within a few seconds. Apparently he wasn't looking to numb the chronic fire in his joints or felt the need to slack off his survival instincts and bait a gamble. He laughed at the thought, remembering the small concerns of his peers over a habit that was older than all of them. Change was close, but he kept the Beast from the surface. He had placed himself in his Clan's position and now wasn't the time to abuse that in favour of experimental data.

"I never thought about it. I think Gin reminds me of the forest floor, where the spirit comes from. Okay," he suddenly cut himself off as a thought slipped to the front of his focus, an amused grin splitting his face as professionalism suddenly evaporates, "I have to ask you. Is this like a Ventrue thing? Cigar bars and alcohol with political discussion? As long as you do not try to influence my actions, I can play ball," he laughed.

[Jacque]

A huff of air pushes through his nostrils, "Can you blame me? You just told me that in the course of trying to resolve one offense, no less than five others were created and need to be answered for. That certainly limits the appeal for a repeat performance." He shakes his head with an expression of confusion, "Why would I tell your clan to fuck off for nonsense that only Madcap was pursuing? I have no qualm with your blood as a whole but to answer your question, no I don't claim to know much outside the spread of unique personalities that currently represent it."

He chuckled, "Perhaps? Honestly, I chose the location out of knowing it was a quiet and reasonably safe space. I have not had the energy to put together a respectable office in Elysium. Minimalist habits keep any real motivation from forming. Plus, I enjoyed our conversation before so taking you somewhere nice was the least I could do."

"I make no promises with mundane influence, but there's nothing real to gain by screwing around in your head, Garrett. Not this time, at least," he smirked noting the caution both he and Madcap had exercised on the topic. "If you're genuine in your intent to offer some form of help in resolving this volatile climate, I'll need some assurance that the finer details of this conversation won't just be used against me in the future." Considering a moment, "A major boon to me should you violate the proposed request for discretion and a major boon to you should I violate your wish to not influence your actions with my blood. Agreed?"

[Garrett Prosper]

"Oh, that question," Prosper blinked. The conversation was getting a bit ahead of them. "I meant the initial prods about where you stand in your requiem in terms of Kindred culture. I have been learning that the denizens here who have decided to break ground under Alessandra's Praxis come from a specific profile of background. Lina, for example, was much younger than I initially realized. I have...surprised most of my peers in my knowledge of maneuvering between covenants and guerrilla tactics. They did not realize how vast the differences were between organizations across the sea," he gestured vaguely, gaze unfocused. "I can guess, sure, but that does not help you, does it?"

At the answer about the location, he squints, "Seriously. I get a strange sense of déjà vu, though Garcia was more aggressive in his approach, as you could probably imagine." He appeared to have a spark of amusement in comparing the two encounters, novel experiences he was shuffling away.

"If you are offering an exchange, we just need to be clear on our respective standards. I can understand your stamina being shot in the foot, when it comes to trusting Kindred in misinterpreting your intent? Attaching a Boon is not going to suddenly alter a perspective unless one is actively lying on purpose and caught in the act. Did you want to record the conversation? A written agreement? I am not sure how trading Majors actually protects you in this specific circumstance... Or are you simply asking I never share your past with another vampire?" the Gangrel found it almost cute that the Lord thought his past was worth such a thing, but vanity was known in their family. He wasn't about to say no if it got things copacetic instead of having to manage an angry pack, and the Prince's inevitable wrath on the manner as she found an excuse to persecute them on a very basic and legal Kindred action. He snickered at the thought. "Sorry. Mind is getting away from me tonight. Also, I do not need a Boon from you under the promise that you will not be oh-so-very convincing. I understand the talents of Lords are a subtle thing that I would never be aware of, really. The only thing I would have to worry about is losing face with my family if I suddenly walk back with a vastly different perspective and trigger their paranoia. If you are looking for a method in which I become invested in your future in the most literal of sense, that would just conclude the business end of this evening outright... So, whatever you feel is best for you, Jack."

The century old beast did not really feel and particular pull towards helping this Kindred's future other than surface niceties, his weariness of blooded conflicts, and his charitable nature. As the Ventrue had pinged, he was honest that he found him pleasing at least. Machetes and claws weren't a noble end for something as silly as misunderstanding, and this was likely the unaligned's first taste in detecting just how dangerous his situation had gotten. It wasn't in a Gangrel's nature to shield or pamper, Garrett's own trial being a brutal one that had left its marks hidden under a well tailored suit.