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View Poll Results: Do we need the Charter and Tetragrammat?

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  • The Charter and Tetragrammaton should remain.

    0 0%
  • The Charter and Tetragrammaton should be removed.

    4 36.36%
  • The Charter should be kept, remove the Tetragrammaton.

    0 0%
  • The Charter should be removed, keep the Tetragrammaton.

    8 72.73%
Multiple Choice Poll.

Consilium Structure OOC

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  1. #1
    Yumyumcrow's Avatar
    Campanella
    Campanella

    Campanella
    Ingrid

    This is an OOC discussion thread for the Consilium.

    As of this post the Mage Venue will have 15 active characters, so I think this is a good point to take stock and ask some questions regarding the structure of the Consilium. So far: -

    We have a Hierarch.

    We have Councillors - based on Path. Given the numbers, Councillor's don't have much to do (except Sand deltadream because Obrimos).

    The main questions I want to ask are:

    Do we need a Herald?

    Do we need Sentinels?

    A Herald can help with Acknowledging new players.

    Sentinel's assist with defence. I'm not too certain if we need explicit Sentinel's yet - the Arrow's Aegis cabal effectively acts in this capacity already. Plus, if a plot called for it, I am certain a number of other players would get involved very quickly.

    I am interested in your thoughts.

  2. #2
    W
    Woland

    I don't believe we need either Heralds or Sentinels.

    1) Acknowledging new players, as far as I'm aware, was handled by Councilors in private scenes or by the Hierarch/the 'general consensus' in Consilium scenes. I've never noticed any problems with this arrangement.
    2) Like you said, the Aegis effectively works as a multi-headed Sentinel anyway, and there is no doubt that the First Talon is the first person to call if things need to be razed to the ground.

    What's more, I don't believe we could sqeeze any fun character interactions from the audition process - bearing in mind the positions' (IMO) redundancy and the fact that mages are far less likely to start a competition for the sake of getting any edge over one another than, say, Vampires or even Lings. Also, from what I see, a lot of the characters that'd be a good fit for a Herald/Sentinel display the attitude of 'just doing my job', and aren't interested in gaining influence by way of titles (but correct me if I'm wrong!)

  3. #3
    Kelreth's Avatar

    Chris Laurent
    Langdom
    Chris Laurent

    Irraka Blood Talon
    Langdon

    With how small the Consilium is a Herald seems unnecessary unless we're going to include it for political reasons (ala Vamp or Ling as Woland mentions for power seeking)

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  5. #4
    M
    Matrixchild

    I think the bigger question is "who do we want to acknowledge new mages"? In the past I think Acknowledging was done by either the Hierarch or Heralds, not Councilors. In fact I recall having a bad interaction with my Councilor when July first came to town because I assumed the Councilor would acknowledge me and learned that it was not part of their job in this game. Now if we want to make it the job of Councilors and the Hierarch to acknowledge people then that's fine, but we should make it clear that Councilors should be the ones people are directed to first. Hierarch should be if there is no councilor or they are unavailable. If we don't want that to be part of a councilor's role, as it is not traditionally, then I believe we do need a Herald. Juris in fact would be happy to be Herald, because he is a political character, though he just arrived so he probably can't do that without several conversations and some discussions.

    Now in regards to Sentinels I don't believe they're necessary right now. I am of the mindset that they assist in protecting/defending the Consilium mages, both inside and outside of meetings, but some people believe they only work to protect the Consilium itself at meetings, almost like security guards. As already stated, with only 15 members we already have characters that would step up to take down any threats without an official position.

  6. #5
    Xadun's Avatar
    Presence
    (Confident)
    Contacts
    (Street, Clubs)
    Primal Urge
    Emily Makerith

    Emily Makerith Scenes
    Rhodes

    Rhodes Scenes


    Angular features, pointed ears. His jet-black hair bursts into bright red flowers and fine dark leaves about his ears forming a wreath of firey foliage that trailed just below his shoulders. Thin woody vines broached and twined across his milky-white skin, with leaves and budding flowers breaking into bloom at his cuffs.

    Hedgespun coat - darkest thunderclouds, broiling and writhing, occasionally flashing as if lighting was happening on the other
    Phoenyx

    Phoenyx Scenes


    Nimbus: Scarlet flames rising out from her like giant sperading wings, and the sound of an eagle's screech.

    I think a lot of this comes down to IC clarity and how the Concillium will be run.

    For example, if the Hierach tasks the Councillors with acknowledging and keeping track of their Paths, a Herald is redundant. If not, Campenella can't be everywhere and a Herald becomes a role more needed. IC these duties were never defined, just... developed as needed, from the time of a smaller Concillium. Also the Path of One issue remains.

    As for Sentinels... I like the idea, but again I feel this comes down to IC recognised authority. Sure the Aegis are here in a similar function, but they have no official Concillium recognition to do anything, they just do because they're Arrows and it's what they do. Similar to Winter and Veil protection.

    Giving the titles applies both authority and responsibility in situations - a decision I feel lies with the person who can appoint and delegate to those duties - the Hierarch. I'm not trying to dump the choice back of YYC here, gods know they do enough already. I'm saying I don't care either way, but I would want the result to make sense IC.
    "Why? Why? Why? WHY?"
    "Four excellent questions!"
    Martin Kreefe and Douglas Richardson, Cabin Pressure

  7. Likes Ruach, Xander liked this post
  8. #6
    deltadream's Avatar

    Twist

    Hound, Lady Viscount, Invictus
    Mask of Tranquility
    Striking Looks •• (Alluring)
    Public Identity (Myah Torsione)
    Sand


    Striking Looks •• (Curvy)

    We have Councillors - based on Path. Given the numbers, Councillor's don't have much to do (except Sand deltadream because Obrimos).

    The one player/toon who is likely the most clueless on what to do *laughs*

    I think MC has a valid point. Especially as a player of a Councilor. I need to know who is in charge of that. Because if Sand has responsibilities, I need to insure she meets them as her character would. Right now, the has seemed mostly a pretty flower for her hair and she has treated it as such.

    As far as if I want to make this the job of the councilors or the Heirarch/Herald ... It's not a hill I wanna die on. I like following the book because it just helps. One less soft HR to intro to new players/track. But I like councilors because there are more and I am a big fan of getting people into play quickly and that is always the first hurdle.

    Either way - we do need at least someone. Camp is great but YYC is ST and we should help him out at least a little bit and making it so he doesn't have to handle every new Mage both OOC (sheets) and IC (acks) is one way we can do that.

    As far as Sentinels - the idea sounds cool and I wouldn't be against it. I understand we have toons who already do the things, but it would be an avenue for IC plots/interactions for those who want it. However, I'm a vamp player at heart so positions just make sense to me. I understand that Mage doesn't work that way (or at least am ... trying to learn it lol) so again, not something I'm going to fight one way or another for.

  9. Likes Ruach, Xander liked this post
  10. #7
    C
    Cross

    Aegis has no jurisdiction over any other Cabal. It is not the same as a Consilium Sentinel.

    The remainder of my/Alastor's opinion, I will save for an IC discussion.

  11. #8
    Xadun's Avatar
    Presence
    (Confident)
    Contacts
    (Street, Clubs)
    Primal Urge
    Emily Makerith

    Emily Makerith Scenes
    Rhodes

    Rhodes Scenes


    Angular features, pointed ears. His jet-black hair bursts into bright red flowers and fine dark leaves about his ears forming a wreath of firey foliage that trailed just below his shoulders. Thin woody vines broached and twined across his milky-white skin, with leaves and budding flowers breaking into bloom at his cuffs.

    Hedgespun coat - darkest thunderclouds, broiling and writhing, occasionally flashing as if lighting was happening on the other
    Phoenyx

    Phoenyx Scenes


    Nimbus: Scarlet flames rising out from her like giant sperading wings, and the sound of an eagle's screech.

    Just as an additional thought, Phoenyx would love to be a Sentinel.

    Not that that should play a factor in this. But she totally would.
    "Why? Why? Why? WHY?"
    "Four excellent questions!"
    Martin Kreefe and Douglas Richardson, Cabin Pressure

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  13. #9
    Xander's Avatar

    Puck Scenes
     

    I'm jumping on the nope train for Heralds and Sentinels.

    This post used to contain a link to the status powers of the concilium officials used in Mind's Eye Theater Larps, but it's a dead link now. I mention that because the roles have had specific powers historically, and defense from external threats has never been a part of that. Sentinels have always been the local police here, not the Army as that was the role of the Arrow. Also the sign up threads we use for plots and things didn't lend itself well to the use of Sentinels as plot police, as all toons had the same opportunity to participate in them. Arrows could be police and military both in plots and out, but the only thing a sentinel actually had the power to do was lower Status by 1 dot (minimum 1, I *think*) if the person was publicly known to have broken the law. Not sure why the post was deleted ( Youngblood , West , can it be recovered/reposted?), but it had the historic powers of the concilium officials in it.

    Anyway, I think Councilor acknowledgement is best. They have the power and it gives the Council something to do given the nothing it does otherwise. For those of you who aren't aware, I did play a Councilor by the name of Emrys forever ago for around a year. It's not super hard normally, simply because the political aspect of the game doesn't come out beyond acknowledgement until someone breaks the laws. The venue has always had some pvp players, but it doesn't have the drive to participate in that aspect that a venue of people with hungry rage monsters in their souls does. Councilors and the Heirarch have the powers that a sentinel or herald would otherwise have, and I think that's plenty for now.

    As for IC clarity, it might be time to write a new charter. The old one on the wiki now was written by characters no one will ever meet or interact with almost five years ago and heavily slants to consolidating power for one of the cabals of the time that has long since disbanded. You can also find the conversation about writing the charter here if you are interested.
    Just your friendly neighborhood gulmoth!

  14. #10
    Vincent's Avatar

    0 Scenes

    AFAIK the topic (rewriting the charter) was already dealt with IC, the councilors decided to keep most of it intact.

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