Benji let me know that the Firearms column only applies to defense. So my comment on Forces armor is obsolete/wrong. The second part still stands though, some armors are kinda wacky.
Former ST Rollup
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Benji let me know that the Firearms column only applies to defense. So my comment on Forces armor is obsolete/wrong. The second part still stands though, some armors are kinda wacky.
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Hello everyone!
So, as interest has mounted about the structure of the Consilium itself, I thought I'd start this OOC thread so that we'll have some clarity of discussion and clear up some potential misunderstandings.
Thang One: So, a few years ago, before the Clock and the Reality War Plots (when West took over), a player named Casitive was the Mage ST. In an effort to organize things and clean up the venue from the last problematic ST, she made the Counselors come from the Paths...In other words, Path Counselors have NOT always been a thang...
Thing Two: Consiliums can take different forms. Let me give you an example through comparison. Right now, it feels to me like we're treating the Consilium like a Vampire Domain. Like, there has to be hierarchy and positions!!!
However, a Consilium could also be more like Werewolves and territory. The Consilium is made up of Cabals. Each Cabal has a territory (physical or conceptual: i.e. borders or, like, Spheres of Influence). The Sigil Holders speak for the cabals and act as Counselors to settle disputes and form policy. Otherwise, there's little structure.
Or, we could always try an Assembly :P
Basic Point: There actually ISN'T a template that we have to use. We can be more flexible. SO! Discuss below.
I'll put my thoughts IC, but it does make me happy that we are looking at some form of structure.
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Occultation
I like the idea of something like this. Cabals pick an aspect of the city (though not necessarily a large swath of physical territory that you can exclude people from because that was two and a half pains in the ass back when i played werewolf with multiple packs) that they claim, like a sphere of influence. Then their cabal can be the go-to people for handling things related to the sphere of influence.
Like maybe Camp's cabal becomes the "official" guardians of the city's museums. That gives the cabal some structure and focus to buy contacts and allies in culture, or other spheres, and then if someone wants to do a plot where it touches on, like, a cult raising a mummy in a museum basement somewhere, they know they can call on camp's cabal for assistance. Maybe Winter comes up with some people who can stand his company and they become the Cabal focused on IT and they focus on Digital Networks.
I think it would be helpful for people who might want to run PrPs if they had a hook like "we have cabals who focus on these spheres" so they can make plots based around those spheres and tag people into them where their social merits might be particularly useful.
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We do not have a lot of people, which means everyone could have a role in the Consilium. Kind of gives everyone a buy in.
I think a Council rule would work, with Councillors and Provosts selected from their path. We give increased function to the Provost, where they can step in and take the place of a Councilor, in their absence or if the Councilor is involved in the matter (i.e. this duel would have had two Provost in their shoes.
Beyond that, other titles like Sentinels and Heralds and about everyone in the venue has a position.
I think another thing that may help. Bump down minimal cabal members to two, instead of three.
I think a lot can be hammered out in character.
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Banshee: Democracy! Assembly! Voting!
Sloth: Benji's reply. All the Benji words!
If we're a Cabal focused Consilium then we can focus more on people instead of positions. We wont have to worry so much if someone poofs, unless they're a Sigil Holder, which can be easily fixed in Cabal without stressing about not having another X Path mage in town.
Also, a Cabal focused Consilium would hopefully prompt more Cabal scenes, which can't be a bad thing!
I think, in theory, cabal focus sounds okay, but there are some considerable flaws with that style of governance. Specifically, it requires membership in a cabal in order for a mage to have a voice. Logistically that means mandating that new arrivals have to form up makeshift cabals as fast as possible in order to even have a voice in the city. Of course if people are forming makeshift cabals just to be heard, they're not focusing on spheres of influence or specialties or any of that other fun cabal stuff. Any system, especially for play by post where roster and membership as we have all seen is subject to sudden and constant change, will fail to provide any order and will only leave an aspect of the player population with no ability to make decisions or have a voice in the direction of the Consilium.
That's why a Path or Order Councilor focus would be the most effective. I am in favor of Path Councilors more specifically because one cannot change their path. They are also automatically members of the group, and thus no one is ever without a voice, as long as we make sure to always have an active Councilor for each path. With that said I don't believe, with our Consilium size, we need a Hierarch. I believe cabals and a council can work together to resolve situation. The Council would make specific policy decisions such as deciding what the Lex Magica actually says for the city, how it's enforced, the appointment of city positions other than Councilors, etc. That is all stuff that should not be handled by Cabals.
Cabals, at least from what I'm reading, would be great prp, plot hook fodder, but that again does not make them well suited for running the Consilium. Order and fun can go hand in hand, but I believe a cabal only system will only encourage people to scene with 1-3 people, ignore all the other players, and never solve conflicts. Let's use this duel as an example. Under a cabal only system (which to be honest I don't even know what the current ad hoc system could be considered), a duel could happen for any reason and the only consequence would be that maybe the other cabals don't like it and don't work with either party again. It would effectively be the league of nations. No power to enforcement punishments for harms against others other than war, because if you disagree with the law, who cares, you've still got your cabal. That only leads to apathy and chaos with the city
Now if the Duel had been done under the old Lex Magica the duel would have had several problems, first being that the council was not informed of it and had not determined that all other options had been exhausted. There should have been some form of mediation prior to the actual duel taking place. Even the Right of Nemesis, which still requires the conflict to be approved under the Precept of War states that "This is not a right that should be invoked lightly or with hubris". No separate, independent party made that determination.
In the end we have possibly 15 mages if mine is approved, so I'm not saying everyone should have a position. I believe that the strongest foundation for a Consilium government at this time is a Council of 5 with possibly 5 Provost, taken from the paths and elected by those in the Path to represent them, to make final decisions on the laws and approve issues under those laws. Does that mean the council needs to be contacted constantly to resolve everything? No. They're not a war council. The cabals can have the freedom to seek out mysteries and fun where they see fit, just like some would suggest under a cabal ruled system. But we should not lump them together and forcing people to cobble together weak and unorganized cabals solely so that they may be represented in a government that all mages, once acknowledged, should have access to is not fun or healthy. Let's keep the plot avenue of cabals separate from the bureaucracy. Bureaucracy isn't fun, but it's necessary for a functioning game. Structured rules, when done well, don't hamper the fun, they allow you to focus on the fun, because if someone violates your rights you know you have a clear way to resolve your disputes other than bloodshed.
TL;DR: I vote a 5 Councilor Council, possibly with provost positions, that can handle the law/punishment/bureaucracy while cabals remain the go to outlet for plots and investigations.
Per pp. 297 MtA: "• Councilor: A Councilor is ostensibly a representative of his Path, although he is also a representative of his order and cabal. The general attitudes of the faction he serves determine a Councilor’s policies, but these are not as important as his personal ambitions. Councilors are well aware that they hold the most powerful — and therefore monitored — positions on the Consilium and watch fellow members for signs of dissatisfaction. A Councilor may use his position to send rivals on troublesome quests or to levy false accusations."
Base Council is Path Council based on the above. However, it can be done different ways. Sigil Holders in Council. Order heads as Councilors. I personally prefer Path Council games with a Heirarch, a Sentinel and a Herald to bring it all together. Councilors make most of the legal decisions. Heirarchs bring wisdom, mediation and, perhaps, set an agenda. Heirarchs are leaders, but they aren't Princes.
Now that I have posted IC, I can say this - personally, I believe Path councils are the best as everyone gets represented. Alastor doesn't agree with Lokio currently, but as with all things, both me and him can be convinced.
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