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nWoD Rules - Extended Tasks - Arts , Crafts , Etc

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  1. #1
    West's Avatar

    Magical Chinchilla
    Star Scenes

    Thought I'd post this here since I stumbled on some Glimpses, etc.


    The common misconception is that the full pool is rolled, and the total successes determine how good the effort is. This is generally not how Extended Tasks are handled. Extended Tasks have three major components:
    - Difficulty -- how complicated is the task?
    - Time Elapsed -- how long does the task take to complete?
    - Quality -- how well was the task done?

    Successes rolled represent two things: progress, and completion of the attempted task. The quality of work attempted is represented by assessing a difficulty penalty to the dice pool rolled.
    - An Exceptional Success on a roll in an E-Task means nothing more than great progress (maybe some other cookie if the ST wants)

    Dice Pool: Attribute + Skill MINUS penalty for Difficulty (how badass of A Thing is trying to be done)

    Target Number: How long will this take + how complicated is it (drawing with a pencil versus painting with hand crushed pigments with gemstone flakes :P )
    Successes: Task Completion + timeframe

    TL;DR
    Any effort without a Difficulty mod results in a 'meh' for quality.
    Smiley face (0 penalty) versus Mona Lisa (-5 penalty). Racking up successes won't turn a smiley face into the Mona Lisa.


    These are the general rules for nWoD. Venues are free to tweak, but it's worth noting that Vampire will adhere to them.

    Working Example


    Edwin Bridges wants to make a necklace for Ashley Cohen for Christmas

    A) Does he have the tools and/or shop needed to work metal?
    - Equipment bonuses could come into play if the character has good tools and/or a Workshop.

    B) Does he have the Resources required for the materials?
    - Generally this is equal to Cost minus one dot. So a necklace that would normally cost 2 dots in Resources requires 1 dot in Resources worth of raw materiel (a bar of metal, etc).

    C) How nice does he want the craftsmanship to be?
    - This is super easy. Just imagine a scale of 1 to 5, 1 being 'okay' and 5 being intricate and beautiful (master craftsmanship). Whatever you want that to be is your Difficulty Penalty on the roll.

    D) How difficult is it to make a necklace?
    - You and your ST are kind of shooting from the hip on this. Let's say it's going to take 8 Successes.

    Now, if A and B = YES :

    Attribute + Skill + A - B is rolled.
    - This is an extended task with multiple rolls, each roll usually signifies an hour
    - The maximum number of rolls for an extended task is equal to Att + Skill (Roll Limitation, nwod p.128)
    - A failure on any roll does notincur a -1, simply no progress is made
    - The number of rolls it takes to accumulate the successes determines if the task was done done and how long it took

    So, using the Example above:

    A) Edwin has purchased nice tools with his Resources and gains a +1 to the roll

    B) Edwin is making a necklace of silver which he could buy for Resources 3; he has Resources 2, and buy a bar of silver stock

    C) Edwin luffles Ashley. A lot. True fact, yo. He wants this to be awesome. He's going for the full -5, and this is going to be beautiful and intricate and just zomg. She'll have to go to Tiffany & Co. to see something like this.

    D) We already guesstimated 8 Successes.

    Edwin has Intelligence 2 and Crafts 4

    Intelligence 2 + Crafts 4 + Tools 1 - Fang Dropping Quality 5 = Dice pool of 2 (omg poor edwin)
    - He can roll six times (his Att + Crafts total)

      
    Date Action Roll Result
    2014-11-28 10:05:36 [06] Example rolls 2 to Intelligence 2 + Crafts 4 + Tools 1 - Fang Dropping Quality 5 (10 Again) 9, 6 1 success
    2014-11-28 10:05:36 [05] Example rolls 2 to Intelligence 2 + Crafts 4 + Tools 1 - Fang Dropping Quality 5 (10 Again) 8, 9 2 successes
    2014-11-28 10:05:36 [04] Example rolls 2 to Intelligence 2 + Crafts 4 + Tools 1 - Fang Dropping Quality 5 (10 Again) 5, 10, 2 1 success
    2014-11-28 10:05:36 [03] Example rolls 2 to Intelligence 2 + Crafts 4 + Tools 1 - Fang Dropping Quality 5 (10 Again) 8, 7 1 success
    2014-11-28 10:05:36 [02] Example rolls 2 to Intelligence 2 + Crafts 4 + Tools 1 - Fang Dropping Quality 5 (10 Again) 5, 7 failure
    2014-11-28 10:05:36 [01] Example rolls 2 to Intelligence 2 + Crafts 4 + Tools 1 - Fang Dropping Quality 5 (10 Again) 6, 4 failure

    Edwin only accumulates 5 Successes: failure. He's made a mess and wasted six hours and a bar of silver stock.

    Had Edwin accumulated 8 Successes (determined in D), he would have succeeded and had a gorgeous necklace.
    Don't hate the player, hate the game.
    The Zeroth Law & the Burden of InteractionThe Devil is in the DotsGreat ExpectationsPlaying MagePlayer Run Plots
    If you have a question about your character, please post it on your character sheet

  2. #2
    West's Avatar

    Magical Chinchilla
    Star Scenes

    We're going to play-test an expansion on Crafting.


    The idea here is to give players a baseline that they can use for Crafting, to reduce some of the back-and-forth with Storytellers as well as have a standardized system that everyone uses. The basis of this formula/idea is the way that nWoD treats Objects and their various factors: most notably Size and Durability.

    Size: The larger an item is, the longer it takes to create it, the smaller it is, the harder it is to work on.
    Durability: Carving an ice sculpture is harder than a Play-Doh sculpture. How difficult is a given material to work with?

    So to create a formula, we'll drive the Size and Durability into the Target Number of Successes needed, which represents the time and effort needed to create the Object. The craftsmanship will remain a dice penalty as is the standard for nWoD 'difficulty' modifiers:

    Size adds to Target Number
    0 = +3 (snow globe)
    1 = +1 (knife)
    2 = 0 (sword)
    3 = +1 (chair)
    4 = +3 (table)
    5 = +5 (car)

    Durability adds to Target Number
    0 = +1 (paper, thin glass)
    1 = +3 (wood, hard plastic, thick glass)
    2 = +5 (stone, aluminum)
    3 = +7 (steel, iron, bone)

    Quality penalizes the dice pool.
    * 0 (rough/average/passably functional)
    * -1 (nice)
    * -3 (exceptional)
    * -5 (masterpiece)

    Now, assuming the character has the proper equipment, let's run a few examples:
    - a steel (durability 3) knife (size 1) would have a target number of 8 (8 hours)
    - a wooden (dur 1) chair (sizee 3) would have a target number of 4 (4 hours)
    - a locket (size 0) locket of precious metal (dur 2) would have a target number of 8 (8 hours)
    - a large (size 5) mural (dur 0) would have a target number of 6 (6 hours)
    - a stone (dur 2) obelisk (size 5) would have a target number of 10 (10 hours)

    These examples are all 'bare minimum' to get the job done, as no Quality modifier is factored in. Remember that creating something of exceptional quality will require the penalty.


    Does this mean that any Size 5 Object can be made in +5 Successes? Can I make a car?

    No. Size examples are just examples of mass. If someone wants to make a car, they'll probably need to make the frame, engine, suspension, each panel, interior, etc. separately.

    So I can make anything now, right??
    Maybe. The general nWoD cap of Attribute + Skill will still limit the total number of rolls allowed.

    As always, facilities and materials are a factor. See the first post. All information in this post is an addendum, not a replacement. Hopefully this method/formula will make life a little easier on everyone.

    Questions? Fire away!
    Don't hate the player, hate the game.
    The Zeroth Law & the Burden of InteractionThe Devil is in the DotsGreat ExpectationsPlaying MagePlayer Run Plots
    If you have a question about your character, please post it on your character sheet

  3. #3
    West's Avatar

    Magical Chinchilla
    Star Scenes

    This has been merged into the official 'global' ruleset -- Crafting.
    Don't hate the player, hate the game.
    The Zeroth Law & the Burden of InteractionThe Devil is in the DotsGreat ExpectationsPlaying MagePlayer Run Plots
    If you have a question about your character, please post it on your character sheet

  4. #4
    LadySin's Avatar

    Yamiho Lillich
    Yamiyo
    (Succubus/Romancer)
    Skye
    (Adamantine Arrow)
    Galina
    (Rahu)
    Yamiho

    Mien
    Her mien is the one single thing you either always dreamed to see or never wanted to see. Flawless or porcelain skin, a small tail, wings whom sometimes seems to be there and sometimes not, sometimes complete other times with perfect holes in them. Clothing that seems to be made from a metallic form of wood gazes over her body just precisely hiding the areas that needs hiding and enhancing her beauty and allure.
    Her head crowned with small horns that seemingly grows out of a tiara made by the same type of fashion. Long enchanting hair that seems to be woven and spun like gold that only could exist in a fairy tale and moving to always be in the exact right spot.
    Ornamental feathers clinging to her hair and clothing just behind her back, long ears adorned with earrings and markings.
    Eyes that seems to sexually devour anyone whom she gazes upon even if she doesn't even try.
    Her combination of being a succubus romancer makes to many details of her appearances hard to pin down but
    Yamiyo Lillich Scenes
      ExitScene
      ExitScene
      ExitScene
     
      ExitScene

    So crafting glimpse prep.

    Staff:
    Wood from the forest.
    Requires 8 successes, wood and size 4.

    Throwing knifes:
    10x, bones from butchers.
    Rules for bones can be found in the armory core book, the damage is lowered from +1L to +0L.
    Knives are small and from bone requiring 8 successes on a extended task each.

    Holders for knives:
    Velcro and simple materials from store.

    4 dies for dexterity
    3 dies for crafts knives, +1 for the staff
    3 dies from increased dexterity from Life.
    -3 dies for quality

    Average die pool
    Staff: 8
    Knives and holders: 7

    Both staff and throwing knife has a resource cost of 1, self made reduces the cost by 1 making them resource 0 need to be made.

  5. #5
    West's Avatar

    Magical Chinchilla
    Star Scenes

    The first question I see is whether or not your planned Honing the form can be cast to cover all that.

    You know the successes you need and you know your dice pool, so you can figure out the average rolls it will take. Each one represents an hour, and that total is how long your Honing spell has to be cast to keep adding those dice. It's also Vulgar, so every re-cast is going to require a Paradox roll.

    I suppose you could back engineer it and see how many rolls it takes and use that for the number of recasts.

    You'll be taking at least a -1 for improvised work area, and I don't know the details on your crafting tools, which could be additional penalties.

  6. Likes Yumyumcrow liked this post
  7. #6
    LadySin's Avatar

    Yamiho Lillich
    Yamiyo
    (Succubus/Romancer)
    Skye
    (Adamantine Arrow)
    Galina
    (Rahu)
    Yamiho

    Mien
    Her mien is the one single thing you either always dreamed to see or never wanted to see. Flawless or porcelain skin, a small tail, wings whom sometimes seems to be there and sometimes not, sometimes complete other times with perfect holes in them. Clothing that seems to be made from a metallic form of wood gazes over her body just precisely hiding the areas that needs hiding and enhancing her beauty and allure.
    Her head crowned with small horns that seemingly grows out of a tiara made by the same type of fashion. Long enchanting hair that seems to be woven and spun like gold that only could exist in a fairy tale and moving to always be in the exact right spot.
    Ornamental feathers clinging to her hair and clothing just behind her back, long ears adorned with earrings and markings.
    Eyes that seems to sexually devour anyone whom she gazes upon even if she doesn't even try.
    Her combination of being a succubus romancer makes to many details of her appearances hard to pin down but
    Yamiyo Lillich Scenes
      ExitScene
      ExitScene
      ExitScene
     
      ExitScene

    Accidentally posted before it was done.

  8. #7
    LadySin's Avatar

    Yamiho Lillich
    Yamiyo
    (Succubus/Romancer)
    Skye
    (Adamantine Arrow)
    Galina
    (Rahu)
    Yamiho

    Mien
    Her mien is the one single thing you either always dreamed to see or never wanted to see. Flawless or porcelain skin, a small tail, wings whom sometimes seems to be there and sometimes not, sometimes complete other times with perfect holes in them. Clothing that seems to be made from a metallic form of wood gazes over her body just precisely hiding the areas that needs hiding and enhancing her beauty and allure.
    Her head crowned with small horns that seemingly grows out of a tiara made by the same type of fashion. Long enchanting hair that seems to be woven and spun like gold that only could exist in a fairy tale and moving to always be in the exact right spot.
    Ornamental feathers clinging to her hair and clothing just behind her back, long ears adorned with earrings and markings.
    Eyes that seems to sexually devour anyone whom she gazes upon even if she doesn't even try.
    Her combination of being a succubus romancer makes to many details of her appearances hard to pin down but
    Yamiyo Lillich Scenes
      ExitScene
      ExitScene
      ExitScene
     
      ExitScene

    Honing the form will be increased to 12 hour duration, all items cannot be made on the same day.

    Taking a -1 into account so would it take a total of approximately 98 successes to be made, average of 2 successes per roll hence 4 rolls per knife and the staff, the holders 3 rolls aka 3 hours, so 4 hours per knife and staff a total of 44 hours and the holders requiring a guess of 4-5 successes each for a total of 8.2 days of work to be finished with 12 hours per day spent making the equipment.
    Each item will on average be finished in less than the total of 7 allowed rolls from base dex+crafts.

  9. Likes West, Yumyumcrow liked this post
  10. #8
    Fedup's Avatar


    Hi all and best wishes!
    My mage, Corn, is writing a theoretical paper for the Mysterium. I want to roll it out and such in a glimpse.

    I was considering using something similar to the house rules from the wiki: Talk:Crafts Skill - Edge of Darkness Wiki (nwod.org) and Academics Skill - Edge of Darkness Wiki (nwod.org) and the rules I found once and I can't find now that say that for writing grimoires you roll 1/week. My mage is not writing grimoires but that's a good rule of a thumb.

    However, I was thinking, shouldn't occult be used for something as ... occult as Sleeper and mage takes on the principles of alchemy etc? Writing a paper also has to do with expression I think.

    So, I was thinking to do some research using occult instead of academics (with a -2 for obscure topic, +1 from my computer and +1 from access to a university library), as an extended int+occ roll to gather 5 successes.
    And then, an extended roll to put that information in a paper using the expression skill (intelligence + expression. -1 for nice, 5 target successes).

    What do you think? Should I go for that?
    I will totally find something cool to put here - eventually.

  11. #9
    Yumyumcrow's Avatar
    Campanella
    Campanella

    Campanella
    Ingrid
    Yumyumcrow Scenes

    Hi

    Merry Christmas to you.

    Yes. I think something like that will work.

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